Black Bobsledders Give the Women of Winter a New Look (Sponsored by P&G)
3/29/18 - Amina talks race, friendship and competition with U.S. bobsledders Aja Evans, Elana Meyers-Taylor & Kehri Jones in a bonus episode brought to you by P&G's My Black is is Beautiful.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Composer: Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs
Visual Creative Director: Kenesha Sneed
Merch Director: Caroline Knowles
Editorial Assistant: Laura Bertocci
Ad sales: Midroll
TRANSCRIPT: BLACK BOBSLEDDERS GIVE THE WOMEN OF WINTER A NEW LOOK (SPONSORED BY P&G)
Aminatou: Welcome to a sponsored episode of Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: My name is Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman, and today's episode is brought to you by P&G's My Black is Beautiful campaign.
Aminatou: My Black is Beautiful celebrates the diverse, collective beauty of black women and encourages black women to define and promote our own beauty standard, one that is an authentic reflection of our indomitable spirit.
Ann: Recognizing that beauty and self-confidence are intrinsically linked My Black is Beautiful is designed to ignore and support a sustained national conversation by, for, and about black women, the way they are reflected in popular culture, and how they serve as the catalyst for a movement that affects positive change.
Aminatou: As part of P&G's longstanding commitment to touch and improve the lives of African-American women My Black is Beautiful began as an effort to target and uplift these women and has now transformed into a robust movement that gives black women the tools to help impact change. On today's episode I got the chance and actually really the honor to speak to some inspiring US bobsledding champions. Here they are in their own words.
Aja: My name's Aja Evans. I'm a brakeman for the USA women's bobsled team and a two-time Olympian.
Elana: My name's Elana Meyers-Taylor. I'm a pilot for the USA bobsled team and I'm a three-time Olympic medalist.
Aminatou: Thank you both so much for joining us today on Call Your Girlfriend. I'm really excited to talk to you.
Aja: Thanks for having us.
Elana: Thanks for having us.
Aminatou: I love it. So much black girl magic in the room.
Elana: [Laughs]
Aminatou: Can you tell me how you got into bobsled?
Aja: I think our routes were a little different. I started off as a track and field athlete so all I knew as far as competitive sports went was track and field. I started in high school and went into like a little post-collegiate but when I was a senior in college my coach at the time told me about the sport of bobsled. And actually Elana was one of the athletes competing in the sport, and how they looked for athletes that came from track and field backgrounds that had that power and that explosiveness and the speed for the sport. And I kind of brushed it off at the time because I really didn't picture myself doing bobsled. I pictured myself pursuing my Olympic dreams and goals as a track and field athlete because that was all I knew at the time. And so I took about a year-and-a-half off from doing sports after I was done with track and field and I just missed being an athlete. I was working as a sports performance trainer and was helping all these kids and adults and everyone accomplish their goals and I felt like I didn't really give myself a chance. So it was almost like I had that conversation with my coach all over and bobsled was in the picture. I went out, tried out, and ended up being pretty good for it.
(2:45)
Elana: I actually grew up playing softball and I was trying to make the Olympic softball team and I didn't make it. And they actually took softball out of the Olympics so in order to be an Olympian I needed a new sport. So my parents had seen bobsled on TV and they saw that strong, fast, powerful women did very well in it and they recommended I try it. So I was like sure, why not? I still want to be an Olympian. This is an opportunity. So I just Googled it, Googled bobsled, emailed the coach and got invited to a tryout.
Aminatou: That's amazing. I remember when the first Olympic announcements came out. Seeing so many black women part of a sport that I knew nothing about, I have to admit I'm one of those people that bobsled -- I've watched Cool Runnings and that's literally it.
Aja: [Laughs] That was me too.
Aminatou: It was one of those sports where I was like oh, what is the skill here besides just launching yourself? And the minute I saw black women doing it I was like I will Google how you do this sport because clearly it requires a lot of talent and beauty so now I want to know. What is people's reaction when you tell -- like when they just find out that you're bobsledders?
Elana: I think people are really shocked.
(3:55)
Aja: I think people are surprised, yeah. I don't know, maybe because of my height and my athletic build they instantly assume I either do basketball or track and field. Yeah, I cannot play basketball. I lack a lot of hand/eye coordination. Plus I'm a black girl so they're like what? A winter Olympic sport? What are you talking about? So it's funny to see everyone's reaction.
Elana: And I think for me it's also all of that but also the fact that I'm from Georgia which is not a winter Olympic state at all, you know? So to have someone from Georgia representing this winter sport it's kind of shocking. But it gives me a really good platform to share my story.
Aminatou: What you both do is really show a lot of people including myself that winter sports are accessible for us. When people think about oh, why don't you have a lot of minorities in winter sports? Like the cost is probably one of them. Geography and location is one of them. But I think that a lot of times we also hold ourselves back because we don't see role models and literally all it took for me to care about bobsled was see awesome US Olympic photos. And I was like these girls look awesome. This looks like something I could see myself doing. Do you feel that you were really prepared for the obstacles that you were going to encounter when you were getting into bobsledding?
Aja: I think growing up, especially kind of being from the city of Chicago like I'm from, you're thrown into a lot of obstacles and stereotypes and everything before you even get a chance to experience the world. And so my mom was a big influence in my life from the earliest stages because she helped me to kind of learn that there was more to the world and experience different cultures, experience different sports, activities, and just different surroundings. And so I was a little more equipped to do this sport and to take it all in by the time I did. I think without her who knows if I would've even made it that far let alone been equipped to kind of deal with everything that came from being a bobsledder or a black bobsledder at that as well.
(6:05)
Elana: I think for me, you know, I was fortunate or unfortunate enough to have a lot of different experiences throughout my high school and collegiate career. I was a softball player, basketball. You name it, I played it. Just having those different experiences, being on different teams with people, having a lot of different coaches, it better prepared me for what I would face in a bobsled context. But also just being in a situation where I was forced to work with different people on a consistent basis throughout what I've experienced through everything really helped prepare me for bobsled.
Aminatou: That's great. Aja, I loved you talking about your mom being an influence because I think our parents really prepare us a lot of times for the bigger world even just in these small ways. Did you have a talk really about race specifically and how it's going to impact you in everyday life? And did that play into your Olympic journey?
Aja: She -- it was like she didn't allow me to fall into a certain category or to feel like it was all these other people and then it was me. Like I was thrown into situations where I dealt with other races. I went to a language academy from kindergarten through eighth grade and so not only are you learning a different language but you're around all different cultures, all different types of people, and that helps me. And then it wasn't honestly until I went to high school or I went to a Chicago public high school where it was like all these black people that look like me but their views were a little different. But it was the opposite effect for me and I think having that background early on really helped me and it wasn't until I started to experience stuff more as an adult and I really started to become aware of different biases, of how people try and judge you and throw all these things on you that I started to have real conversations with her just how shocked I was that this is really how people are and how they really think.
(8:05)
We've had a few conversations even with me doing bobsled and traveling to some of these smaller countries to where they're not used to seeing people that look like me and understanding that even in our sports, and she was just showing me that the world just -- sometimes people don't know any better and that's all they know. You have to look at it and accept that that's where they're at in their life and that's what they believe and it doesn't have to affect you in your beliefs. So once I started to really get a grip on that it made it easier for me and, you know, wasn't affecting me as much.
Aminatou: What about you Elana? Did your parents have a consistent talk with you about race and this journey? Or did it organically happen?
Elana: Well first I'm biracial. My mom is white, my dad is black, so I think race is something you can't help but talk about especially in a biracial household. From very early on my mom told me that there's just some people in the world who aren't going to like you not only because you're black but also because you're a woman, because of this and because of that. And in some cases that just means you're going to have to work harder to get where you want to be, to get where you want to go. So having that talk early on with my mom and being able to freely talk about race and gender issues with my parents throughout my entire career has really helped me to navigate the waters that I'm in now.
You know, when I started bobsled yes we had Vonetta Flowers as the first African-American to win a gold medal but at the same time she wasn't on the team when I was on the team. So still being in a world when I started in 2007 that was predominantly white that was a little bit different. And I encountered people on my team who hadn't had much experience dealing with people from other races or competing with and against people of other races so that was a pretty eye-opening experience for me. But having an opportunity to talk some of those issues through with my parents really helped. And to this day there's a lot of stereotypes around bobsledders and black bobsledders and stuff that I'm working hard to dispel but race and bobsled and winter sports can't help but be an issue.
(10:15)
Aminatou: Yeah, that's so true. You know, on the show we talk a lot about implicit bias and how it affects everyday just being a woman in the world and being a black woman specifically with work. Do you think there's implicit bias in your sport? And how has it impacted your own world view and how you view your role?
Elana: Well there's definitely implicit and explicit bias in our sport. [Laughs] Unfortunately there's still the stigma on black drivers that we shouldn't be driving, we should stick to push athletes, that we don't have the mental capacity to drive bobsleds. You know most people don't realize that it's actually a lot of skill that goes behind driving a bobsled. Most people think you just get in and lean left and right which is not true at all. It takes a lot of skill to learn how to drive a bobsled. So I've heard it up until this year even that black athletes don't have the mental capacity and I've heard about different sled makers. There's a whole bunch of different people who make sleds not allowing black athletes to drive their sleds because they don't think they can handle it and things like that.
Aminatou: Wow.
Elana: So there's definitely biases that shape bobsled but we're out there trying to dispel those myths.
Aminatou: Aja do you think black bobsledders have to work twice as hard?
Aja: Honestly you don't have to work twice as hard from a physical standpoint, and I think that's what scares them is we just come out and dominate and that's the fun part for me. But I think it's more from an emotional and a mental standpoint you have to be equipped to handle the subliminal messages or shade or just people's -- I think they just don't know and they don't understand and they've already created their ideas about us as a person or that we only have these athletic abilities because we're black and stuff like that. They've created that in their heads prior to even meeting us and getting to know us. So when it comes to our sport and specifically our team I'm so blessed to be on a team with so many other strong women, let alone strong African-American women, and we're all dealing with it together. So it helps us to have strength when it gets hard or you just don't understand why people act like that or think these things. So having people like Elana and my other teammates to just talk to about even not just bobsled-related, when we see different things going on in the media, we're just able to kind of experience it and go through it together. And I think that was the best part about it was having other women going through the same things and we're all there to support each other.
(12:50)
Aminatou: I love what you said about dominating and really just owning that because I've watched the winter Olympics probably my whole life because my family, we lived in Europe and we always followed it. But this was the first year where I felt like there was more than one black athlete because the winter Olympics always do this. They go "Here's the one black skier. Here's the one black whatever." And I'm like this year it's lit. [Laughs] Yeah, it's like we . . . give it two more Olympics and only black people will medal from all over the world. I really love that. The other thing that was so striking to me, I keep going back to the photo announcement of your team because I remember how much it affected me because that visual was just something I had never seen before. And one thing that is really, really, really cool about the US bobsled team is that the team varies in body types. I thought that was really awesome. It wasn't this like oh, you have to have this specific kind of body to do this specific sport which in its way is also kind of -- it would feel limiting for somebody who's an amateur or whatever. And it was interesting to go from noticing that and how awesome that is then to hearing a lot of the negative language on how people police black women's bodies, especially when they're athletes. And I'm wondering if both of you can talk about your experiences with that?
(14:14)
Aja: I think the beauty in our team specifically is the variety and how we're all built differently, we all look differently, and we're still the same beast regardless of who it is. So it's always fun because, you know, everyone . . . you're just able to embrace that diversity. And I think that was key was owning who you are, having confidence in your abilities and what you bring to the table, and matching that with a driver who brings similar yet different qualities.
I think with all the drivers they were all different, all the brakemen were different, but yet we all gelled together when it came time to do work and come together as a team. And so having those levels and that variety really helps to balance it out. And, you know, at times we may not agree on everything or whatever, however that goes. You stick however many of us, nine or six women together all the time traveling from week-to-week, spending every day together, it gets hard sometimes. But I think our differences really brought us together at the end of the day.
Elana: And I think what's really cool about bobsled is not only is there diversity amongst the US team as far as body type but diversity across the world, you know? With having a Jamaican sled, a Nigerian sled, and sleds from Russia. Or sorry, Olympic athletes from Russia and Belgium and all these different sleds.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
(15:45)
Elana: You know, it's really a collection of women from across the world, beautiful women with different body types, and I think that's what's really cool about it is you can find success no matter what you look like, no matter where you come from. And I think that's what makes bobsled the coolest sport in the winter Olympics.
Aja: Yeah. And I'm not sure how your experience was when you first got in Elana but I feel like as I started getting more years under my belt in this sport it just kind of became cool throughout the entire sport. I felt like everyone was happy to have that diversity. Even other countries, we were vibing with the African-American girls from Great Britain, Canada, the Nigerian girls, Jamaica, and just having them all kind of . . . we coming together and being proud to give the women of winter a new look. That was a really fun feeling as well, especially opening ceremony at the Olympic games and just seeing everyone in their country's uniform. But, you know, beautiful African-American melanin women, that was fun for me.
Aminatou: Yeah, that's so real. So much of sports is about competition and when women are competitive it is always seen negatively. Like men are allowed to be competitive, that's cool, but for women it carries so much negative stereotype. But to watch these beautiful melenated women competing against these other countries and you're happy for each other and also you do it -- you are doing a team sport, still feeling like you are empowering and you're reaching all your goals and achieving, that's something that's pretty awesome.
Aja: Yeah, it was definitely a good balance of competition and empowerment. I felt like at this Olympic games being proud of all the other women competing didn't take away from my performance or my focus. We were still the same competitive athletes we've always been when it came to get on the line and do what we do but we were also just proud to see others win and others perform and do well. And so I think it was a pretty good balance.
(18:00)
Elana: Yeah. Part of the reason I continue to do the sport and try to go another four years is because I really want to see the growth of the sport. I think competing at this high level has taught me so much that's going to extend into my future life whenever that starts as far as how to compete in a boardroom and how to compete in the business world and working tirelessly to make sure other women have that opportunity and other women understand how valuable that opportunity is.
The pretty cool thing about bobsled is because it's such a male-dominated sport there's actually less of an expectation that you compete like women in this sport. You're expected to go out there and compete like men because we train with the men and we travel with the men and things like that. So for me it's actually a little bit more freeing in the bobsled sense than in some of the other sports I've been involved with. Obviously I wish there were more female coaches in our sport but the fact that we're coached by men and the fact that we share a lot of the same resources as the men's team I think actually gives us a little bit more freedom to be those competitive killers that we want to in our sport. But at the same time there is a lot of community and things around being a woman in this sport because there's a lot of things that are a little bit more difficult because we're women. We do have to get along with more women across the world because of that.
Aminatou: Can you talk more about those things that you feel are difficult?
Elana: Yeah. For example the very basic of the sport, one of the things we have to do is move these sleds all over. Load them on trucks. We have to take them up and down the track. We have to compare them and stuff like that, and the men's and women's sleds weigh the exact same. Well we're not as strong as the men as much as we try to be so it takes many more females to carry the same size sled as it would a men's team for example. So that simple fact alone, you'll see women coming down the track and out of races, there's a lot more community because of that. You might have a Russian and a Romanian helping out on a sled just because it's that heavy and everybody knows how heavy it is.
(19:55)
Things like when we're competing and when we're training we compete with the men and there's not a woman-only locker room so a lot of us will stick together as far as that's concerned to kind of make a little bit more private space for ourselves. Things like that.
Aminatou: Do you both feel like there is enough awareness that the pipeline is becoming bigger to have more women in the sport? To me hearing something like that, like oh yeah, you share these locker rooms, you don't have your own space, all of that to me seems a lot of it is just resources, you know? And that the more women there are in the sport the more all of those resources would open up. So are there like tangible, measurable ways you guys are seeing more women are coming into the pipeline?
Elana: I think the most tangible way that we see it is there's more sleds in our competitions every week and there's more diversity. There's teams from China now. There's teams from Korea, Australia, Nigeria, from all over the world where we're not seeing as much growth as far as diversity in the men's side. You know, most of the men's field is dominated by European countries because that's who they feel like can win races so there's not as much growth as far as diversity's concerned. But on the women's side it's still pretty wide open. And then the other thing is we are starting to get a little bit more resources. It's slow, it's slow-coming, but now they're even talking about adding more discipline for women's bobsled which would be really cool to see. Because right now in the Olympic level men have two opportunities to compete and potentially win a medal. They've allowed women to now start doing four-man and even at the Olympic level we just don't have our own discipline so it'd be a little bit more difficult to try and realistically win medals in two events for women. But now we're at the point where we're actually in talk about adding new disciplines for women.
(21:55)
Aminatou: I mean it's pretty undeniable that you're empowering more women athletes, and specifically women of color. Does that feel like an opportunity? Does it feel like a burden?
Aja: Coming into this sport I was coming in as the determined, goal-oriented athlete that I've always been. And so when I came in kind of wanting to dominate, and you know, we came in -- a lot of African-American women at once -- and started getting a lot of media attention. I started to receive messages and DMs from people all across the world who were so just inspired by my story, especially African-American people, African-American women from the city of Chicago and other places. I started to realize that this platform was bigger than just being an athlete. It was bigger than just going after an Olympic medal and dreams. We stood for so much more, overcoming adversities, biases, stereotypes, and just coming in and dominating and giving people hope through our journey. I don't feel like our sport resonates with people -- what we do resonates with people -- just because we're pushing a sled. It's more so how we dominate, how we have that confidence, how we go through struggles and we still go out there and persevere in a sport where most athletes don't look like us.
And so it wasn't until my journey through bobsled that I started to realize that it wasn't just about me being an athlete, I was representing so much more. It wasn't just me up there; I was representing my city, my country, black people, black women, these kids that come from the same streets as me who now have hope and can see what we're doing. So it's been an empowering feeling honestly.
The best part about it for me is being able to just share that journey and to own it. It's more -- it makes the journey more worthwhile than just kind of going for a medal. That's like the icing on the cake. Everything else is about the experience and just sharing that and hopefully inspiring other people.
(24:00)
Elana: And that's why it's been so cool to partner with P&G and be a part of the My Black is Beautiful campaign just to be a role model and to show our experiences and how beautiful black women can be and how beautiful we are regardless of what sport we're in and regardless of whether it's the winter Olympics, summer Olympics, or no Olympics at all. And the fact that we're able to be a part of these types of campaigns, I view it as a huge opportunity, you know, to be a role model of strength and beauty in all types of forms, shapes, and sizes.
Aminatou: That's so true and I'm so glad that you felt the love from all around the world and from home because watching from home it was pretty remarkable. Like with some friends we had a party to watch bobsleds and everybody showed up. [Laughs]
Aja: Oh, that's awesome.
Aminatou: It was so fun. And we were rooting for everybody. We're rooting for Nigeria, rooting for the USA, everywhere. It's cool. What takeaway do you have from your Olympic performance? Are you happy with how you did? What do you want to do better next time? What did you leave with?
Aja: For me it was such a weird feeling. Despite placing fifth and not making the podium that was the most exciting race of my entire career. And to be in such an intense run-for-run race it was any man's game every run. And to share that with the world on the biggest platform was so fun. I feel like everyone who won an Olympic medal completely, 1,000 percent deserved their Olympic medal. And we all fought until the very last run. So knowing that I put it all on the line and I did everything I could, I'm okay with that. I think this time around it was more about the journey for me and that's when I realized that I wasn't just saying it; I actually felt it in my heart when I left without a medal. I realized that I had so much more fulfillment and so much more joy in my heart, so much more love and an appreciation for everything I've done by leaving the Olympic games without a medal than I did when I first got into the sport and won bronze in 2014 which is crazy. I just feel that I've grown so much as a woman and as a person that you couldn't tell me I didn't win gold because in my heart I felt it 1,000 percent so I'm good.
Aminatou: Aww.
(26:20)
Elana: Yeah, for me it was a little bit different experience, you know? Coming in, all the obstacles that we had overcome and everything to get to that point, that was a huge victory in and of itself. So it was an amazing race. We put on a show and I really think it was one of those races that people will want to watch. And for me thinking about the growth of the sport that's what you want. That's all you can ask for for Olympic competition. And I went out there and laid it all on the line and to walk away with the silver medal I am super excited. I arrived to the Olympics in a wheel chair and to walk out with a silver medal, that's quite an amazing accomplishment. And just for the growth of the sport and the growth of the diversity and everything, to have a race like that, it was incredible. So to be a part of something that amazing is beyond words what you can describe. So, you know, of course I still want that gold medal. I'm going to do everything I can to get one in four more years but at the end of the day that was a heck of a race.
Aja: Man, it really was.
Aminatou: I know, I feel like we're reliving it all over again which makes me so happy.
Aja: I know. I kind of got goosebumps thinking about it.
Aminatou: So obviously our show is called Call Your Girlfriend. It's all about the power of friendship. Can you tell me who your best friends are? Who's your team? How do they encourage you and just take your mind off of the fact that you are on the world's biggest platform doing crazy things?
(27:55)
Aja: I mean for me it's family. Even the ones who aren't related by blood, my closest friends I consider like family. And I actually have a nine-year-old niece who is one of the smartest girls in the entire world and she now has a cell phone so that's my girl. I call her and talk to her all the time, especially when we're on such a crazy platform like the Olympic games or traveling across the world. Being able to talk to my family, the ones who really know me and support me win, lose or draw and just know how to put a smile on my face despite anything, those are the ones I turn to. I've met so many amazing women throughout this journey and friends who don't even do sports but are completely crushing it in their own fields. And just surrounding myself with these successful, empowering people, that continues to kind of push me forward.
It gets tough because we go on tour and we're gone for weeks and months at a time and so thank god for technology and being able to talk to everyone and communicate back home because I wouldn't be able to do it without my friends and my family.
Aminatou: What about you Elana?
Elana: When you talk about call your girlfriend the person that instantly comes to mind is my best friend since second grade, you know? Regardless of what time of day it is, regardless of where I am in the world, I can always call her and talk about nothing at all or talk about whatever she's got going on. You know, I don't know that we've really had any conversations over the past eleven years really centered around bobsled so to have that kind of best friend in your corner it's amazing. And she's one person who really helps keep me centered. But of course my team is much bigger than that and I'd be amiss not to mention all the great people around me. You know, my husband, my parents, my family, my friends. It's really taken a team to get to this point. It's incredible on how many people it actually takes to get somebody to the Olympics and I think people see you on the platform and they see you on the podium and they think oh, it's so great this person did that. But it really is a team that it takes to get to where you are. So I'm so blessed to have incredible people around me whether it's my teammates, my friends, my family, anybody who's been with me through this entire journey. It's absolutely been incredible.
(30:13)
Aminatou: What are your hopes for the next winter Olympics in four years? What do you hope will change for all the little girls in this country that got to watch you?
Aja: I really hope there's a continued increase in opportunity for women. I think the IOC is trying to add more disciplines for women and adding more events for women but I hope it continues to grow and I hope women have more opportunity to experience our sports whether it's bobsled, skeleton, any winter sport. I really hope there's growth in that area. But I also hope there's growth in the area where women no longer feel like they have to fit into a certain mold to be successful. You know, seeing the diversity in body shape and size in our sport and hopefully that just encourages women and more and more little girls to go after their dreams. You never know what could happen if you're just willing to go out there and take a chance. And all of us in the sport of bobsled were just willing to go out there and take a chance.
And I feel like the winter Olympics is one of those kind of events that serves that kind of format is most people out there, they were just at some point willing to take a chance on a crazy sport. All the winter Olympic sports are pretty crazy so for any of us out there competing it's really about going outside your comfort zone and trying to find a way you could succeed.
Aja: Yeah, I completely agree with Elana. I think one of my biggest takeaways and what I hope people understand, especially little girls, is that they have the power to do whatever they want in life and we're living proof. For Elana to be from Atlanta and me be from Chicago, we're not really known for being in winter Olympic sports let alone some sport called bobsledding. I mean the possibilities are just endless and I think us going into it and being fearless and owning it and just having that confidence really helped us to excel and to get to that level. So I just hope regardless if it's the winter Olympics or going for bobsledding or anything I really hope people just figure out what they want to do or be open to the journey and just go full-force.
(32:20)
Growing up you couldn't tell me I wasn't going to the Olympics and winning an Olympic medal. But I just thought it was going to be in track and field because that's what I was used to doing, that's what I grew up doing, and that's all I knew. And lo and behold my journey led me to a sport far different from track and field but I ended up accomplishing my wildest hopes and dreams, every single one of them -- except for winning gold but I can come back for that -- but just getting out there and being able to do everything I wanted to do and more. And so I think that now having that knowledge and experience, I hope that everyone else understands that sometimes it may not look exactly how you want it to look but if you know what you want in your heart and you have this goal set for yourself just be open to it and go full-force and be open to the journey and take it all in.
I think we went to so many beautiful countries in the world, we competed on so many amazing platforms, and honestly that was the biggest part of it and that was the most fulfilling part was going to all these places. I swear before I started bobsled I had like one stamp in my passport. I was in Mexico. And so going from that to several different countries and experiencing during wintertime which is another thing I feel like black people don't do enough of, it was so rewarding to me.
Aminatou: Aww, thank you so much Elana and Aja. I am so proud that you represent us and thank you for all your hard work and for making the time today. It's such an honor.
[Interview Ends]
[Interview Starts]
Aminatou: Hi Kehri! Thanks so much for joining us today.
Kehri: Kehri Jones, US bobsled brakeman.
Aminatou: I'm going to ask you the same question that I've asked every bobsledder I've talked to ever in my whole life, how did you get into bobsled?
Kehri: So I was actually recorded into the sport of bobsled by Elana Meyers-Taylor. She was looking for athletes and came across my strength and conditioning coach. She was able to see what I did in track and field and how I ran and she thought that I would be a good fit. So my coach came and asked me if I still wanted to compete because it was my last year of eligibility to run track and I was like yeah, well sure, I am. And he came across me with this idea of doing bobsled. It was just like -- it just took me back because the previous games had just finished and we saw Lauren Williams race and that's kind of an idol that I've looked up to all my life running track. And I was like I don't know, but I definitely will try. And we did the tryout process and I ended up being okay at the sport.
Aminatou: That's awesome. I got to talk to Elana earlier so I love that the community is that small and it really takes a lot of recruitment and making people realize they can do the sport to compete.
Kehri: Mm-hmm.
Aminatou: Kehri, what is people's reactions when you tell them that you're a bobsledder? Do you have positive reactions? Also what are the worst reactions you've gotten?
Kehri: So the majority of the reactions I get being from Texas is how did I get into the sport? You're from Texas. It's hot. How do you deal with the cold? Like are there other black women who bobsled? A lot of people from Texas don't know about the sport just being from the south and not having a lot of snow where we come from, snow at all. So that's the majority of the reactions. But then when you get into people who kind of have an idea about bobsled it kind of gets a little negative because they're like "You're so small! How do you bobsled? You must be on a recreational team," because I don't fit the ideal image of a bobsledder.
(36:25)
Aminatou: But is there really an ideal image of the bobsledder even? Because the thing that I noticed that actually drew me into even wanting to watch it was the fact that there was so much body diversity on the team. I didn't feel like oh, you have to have this specific body or you have to be this tall or that big. I was like here all these women look very differently and so it seemed really accessible because of that.
Kehri: If you -- the majority of everybody in bobsled is pretty tall and a pretty . . . like a built chick. I'm only 5'1" barely and I'm pushing less than 150 pounds so you don't really see that at all. You only see it from some of the Asian countries where that's the way that they're built. So the majority of the USA nobody that raced was under like 5'7". I think Elana was the shortest person who raced for USA and even the Germans and all the people who have been in bobsled for a long time, the stereotype is true: a lot of the girls are heavier, more built chicks and they're not itty-bitty like me.
Aminatou: [Laughs] But you're really strong. Have you faced any kind of negative reaction for being a very strong smaller woman?
(37:48)
Kehri: As a kid I did a whole lot actually, like the girls would tell me that I was shaped like a boy. Even my best friends now before I formally met them in high school, they were like "When we saw you we thought your voice was going to be so deep and we thought that you were going to have a buzz cut." Those types of stereotypes you get because I've just been doing sports my whole life and I wasn't even lifting weights at that point but I just was a really strong girl just I guess off of genetics.
Aminatou: Right, and there's nothing to apologize for that too. How do you deal with that kind of criticism?
Kehri: Well at first I didn't really know how to deal with it and I would just, you know, be negative on myself and look at myself in the mirror and I'm like oh gosh, this is too big. They are right, like my arms are really big, my shoulders are really big. You know, and I would look in the mirror and I'm just trying to figure out how to be more like everybody else. You know, when I went into college because I hadn't seen a community of chicks that were kind of like me and when I got into college I started seeing more girls that looked like me and that's when I started to come to grips like I do look good. All these girls look like me and I think they look nice so why can't I think that about myself?
And it came later on in life because I progressed through the grades pretty quickly so I was young but I just had to see other women who looked like that to kind of be positive within myself. Like look at myself like I'm beautiful.
Aminatou: That's so wild for me to hear you say that, you know? Because it's true. It's like we're our worst critics then other people say something and it sets you off. Because I really enjoy looking at your Instagram because I'm just like wow, look at what a powerful body can do. I certainly cannot do that. So I just love that through technology so many other women get to see you and just admire the ways that we are built and that everybody can look different and that power is good for women also to have.
Kehri: Yeah.
(40:05)
Aminatou: One of the things that P&G has been talking about is this experience of the talk, right? That a lot of predominantly African-American kids will have with their parents. Do you remember having the talk with your parents about race? And how did that kind of shape your views on competing on the world stage?
Kehri: So growing up I never really had to have the talk because I grew up on a military base where it's just a melting pot of people. There's not really one single race. A lot of people are mixed with a lot of things and so we didn't look at the outer appearance on that's why we're going to hang out with these group of people; it was more like what are you interested in? Because we all had the same common upbringing, like we all know we're going to be here for maybe a year-and-a-half to two years then we're leaving. So I mean we all have gotten used to that and we just make friends merely on what we have in common. What are our interests?
When I went to my first public school that's when I started experiencing, you know, these kids are the cool kids because they wear this and they're this particular race. These kids hang out with each other because they're this race. Having a hard time trying to figure out who to hang out with, and I think my parents kind of had a hard time with giving us the talk because they didn't really know what to say or how to explain it to us because they hadn't had to do it all the way up until I was in middle school.
(41:45)
My parents would always try to tell me like don't lose yourself in trying to find a group of people. And I felt like that's kind of what I ended up doing. I kind of lost myself because I wanted to belong to this certain group of people because they were cool and they were my race and that kind of seemed like the thing to do. And when my parents were finally able to try to get something out of it they just were like, you know, you're a little black girl and some of the white kids might not want to hang out with you or some of these kids might not want to hang out with you just purely on your race and we don't really understand why people are like that but you're going to run into people like that. And you have to realize it. It's sad that it has to be this way but that's just the way it is. So that's kind of what we had because it was really like a culture shock going from this particular upbringing environment where everybody's just really friendly and you don't have to deal with that . . .
Aminatou: Yeah.
Kehri: To just be thrown in there, feeling like you're being thrown into the wolves because you don't know and you're feeling like you can do the same thing when you can't because then you have the kids looking at you crazy and avoiding you, not wanting to hang out with you and that kind of thing.
Aminatou: How did that mirror the same kind of obstacles that you faced when you were trying to participate in bobsledding?
Kehri: So the good thing about bobsledding was Elana had really recruited a lot of girls so on the team we actually had quite a few black girls on the American team. Now going to Europe it was a little different because we would be in these small towns where people don't see people like us all the time and so we'd get really stared at and people just snickering. Kids just staring and you look at them and they're still staring at you. And then sometimes they'll move away and hide behind their parents but we all got to deal with that together. And having Elana be seasoned . . .
Aminatou: Wow.
Kehri: It was a little easier, you know? Because she was kind of there because she knew what was happening. I kind of really was mentored by her, you know? Knowing what to expect on tour and things like that.
(44:20)
Aminatou: Wow. So when you're saying what to expect on tour how do you prepare when you have a difficult interaction or you experience somebody's bias? What are coping techniques that you have for that?
Kehri: A lot of times, I mean although in the moment you're kind of taken aback by people just asking weird questions, but afterwards you just kind of chunk it up to their ignorance, like not knowing. Just having not been exposed to that. Although it's sad that you have to do that because we're not technically . . .it's like in the unspoken rule book that we're not allowed to stare at people or do the same things that they do to us, but we kind of talk about it together sometimes and laugh about it because after a while it just gets old.
Aminatou: Yeah, right. And it's so impressive too because, you know, people are watching you but y'all are at work. This is your place of work. And there's so much to be said about being a professional in this moment that can be so jarring for you.
Kehri: Mm-hmm, yeah. For sure.
Aminatou: How does it feel to be world champion bobsledder Kehri Jones? Because I have a really hard time with accolades and bragging and whatever and when you're an athlete that just comes with the territory. What goes through your mind every time you realize that you're a world champion bobsledder?
Kehri: To be perfectly honest it kind of doesn't really mean anything when it comes to like making the Olympic team obviously.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Kehri: But in the moment it was just awesome to be racing with Elana, the woman who brought me into the sport, and knowing that we're the best in the world. I didn't really realize it. I was still in shock like a week later and we had another race afterwards but I was just in awe that I was able to do that and set myself apart from every other woman who's competed in bobsled. I'm only the second brakeman to ever win a world championship.
Aminatou: Wow.
(46:33)
Kehri: So to be able to say that is like profound. Like nobody else can say it. Only me and one other girl can say it, and Elana can say it. She was the same pilot who won both. It doesn't really mean anything when it comes into Olympic year because we have a committee that kind of does whatever they want to and unfortunately I didn't make the Olympics like I thought I would. But I still have to remind myself that, you know, you are good. You can push fast. It's unfortunate that politics didn't work in your favor because I was taught to just put my feet down and let it speak for you.
Aminatou: Yeah.
Kehri: And to get that blow really hurt me but my mom is still there telling me to just fight on, fight on, fight on.
Aminatou: For all that it matters I think that you're amazing and you're empowering so many women whether they're athletes or not. And especially women of color to see themselves represented in you is something that is really, really powerful. Do you realize the enormity that that is too?
(47:45)
Kehri: I've always wanted to be a shining light to the dark places that they put us in. And growing up I knew that's what I wanted to do. And getting back home and being able to talk to these girls and let them know like look, they put you in this hole but you don't have to be there. You can be great. You can be the top whatever you choose to put your mind to. Don't let society put you in this hole. And I've always been a big advocate for that and I think that's because my great grandmother was just the same. She never let anybody put her in that hole that she -- you know, because back when my great grandmother was growing up not a lot of black people were able to get into schools, better yet college, and she was able to knock down a lot of those barriers.
Aminatou: Wow.
Kehri: And to have that in my back pocket to know, it just makes me want to encourage everybody else to be great.
Aminatou: Yeah, I mean that's . . . you come from a family where a lot of women were first at something so that sounds -- you know, it's like the inspiration that you can draw from that, it can change your life.
Kehri: Yeah.
Aminatou: Can you tell me more about your support system? You've talked about your mom. Who is your best friend? Who are the people that encourage you and keep you going on the hard days and make you laugh?
Kehri: So my support system, it consists of my college track and field track coach and the strength and conditioning coach who actually got me into the sport of bobsled. My mom and dad are always big supports. I have two little sisters that support me, and pretty much it's my family and my best friend who I actually -- one of them I actually met in college. We used to race against each other and we're just best friends, we just clicked. And then I have three best friends from home. You know, they're always checking in on me, seeing how I'm doing, and they always give encouraging words too.
(49:48)
Aminatou: Can you tell me more about your best friend that you used to race against? Because there are so many stereotypes that women can't get along, especially if they're competing for the same thing. I don't think that's true. On our show we talk constantly about that's not true. But I'm fascinated to hear it from people who actually have to compete in the sport against each to her.
Kehri: Yeah, so sometimes it's actually true. I won't say all the time that it's not true. But going to Baylor University our team was really like a family and I found my best friend in a girl who was actually faster than me in some events and I was faster than her in some events. We just pushed each other. And that's my best friend, her name is Ashley Fields. She ran track for Baylor University. And we just used our strengths to help each other out and it just ended up making both of us better in our weaker events at the end of the day.
Aminatou: That's awesome. What are your hopes and dreams for all of the little girls that get to watch you be awesome on a world stage and who are going to dream to see you in four years at the Olympics?
Kehri: I just . . . I just dream that even if they do get all these negative comments and feeling like everything is against them to know that I came from that place. I was that little black girl who everybody said athletes are dumb so they put me in that category. I want them to see that you can still do it. You have to prove everybody wrong and you have to use that to fuel your fire, to be able to come back and say "Look at this. Now look at me. You talked bad about me. You said I wouldn't be able to do this and do that but here it is." And you have to say it within yourself and sometimes you can say it to them. Don't be afraid, like let them know I made it and you thought I couldn't do it.
Aminatou: I love that. Kehri thank you so much for being an awesome role model and for being someone that we can all look up to and for giving us time today. I really appreciate it.
Kehri: Yeah, thank you for having me. Any time I'm able to, you know, let more people know -- give them encouraging words I'm always willing to do that.
[Interview Ends]
Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet, on our website callyourgirlfriend.com, you can download it anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts, or on Apple Podcasts where we would love it if you left us a review. You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. We're on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at @callyrgf. You can subscribe to our monthly newsletter The Bleed on the Call Your Girlfriend website. You can even leave us a short and sweet voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. Our theme song is by Robyn, all original music is composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs, our logos are by Kenesha Sneed, and this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.