Sustainable Style
8/20/21 -Miranda Bennett has long been one of our favorite designers. We discuss how she got started making and selling clothes, how she balances running a sustainable business with keeping the lights on, and tips for buying sustainably (even though we know there is no ethical consumption under capitalism).
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Executive Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Composer: Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.
Producer: Jordan Bailey
Visual Creative Director: Kenesha Sneed
Merch Director: Caroline Knowles
Editorial Assistant: Mercedes Gonzales-Bazan
Design Assistant: Brijae Morris
Ad sales: Midroll
LINKS
As a special (non-sponsored) thanks to CYG listeners, Miranda is offering 20% off sitewide through the end of Sept 2021 with code CYG20
TRANSCRIPT: SUSTAINABLE STYLE
[Ads]
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: She’s Ann Friedman
Ann: She is Aminatou Sow. Today we have such a special treat. We are talking to an icon of sustainable biodegradable feminists, small business, principled clothing, Miranda Bennett. I know you and I both own several of her garments. That may be my conversation with her, which you're about to hear sounds like a spawn or something, but in truth, we are really both just like a fan of her process, her approach to business, and then also the stuff that she makes. And so I just, yeah, I want to be clear that the fan vibes you here are genuine on my end. And, um, yeah, I wanted to talk to her because I feel like it can be really tough to muddle through like, what is a good or sustainable choice. Um, especially when it comes to the clothes we put on our bodies, like, what do we feel good in? How do we deal with the fact that like, yeah, we want to shop as our ideas of what we want to wear and how we want to present in the world change. And so, you know, she has a lot of really interesting thoughts about that.
[theme song]
Ann: Also as a really sweet bonus for our listeners. Miranda is offering 20% off everything on her site for CYG listeners through the end of September. Totally unprompted again, I swear. I know it sounds like spawn, but it's not. If you go to shop Miranda bennett.com, that's M I R A N D A Bennett B E N N E T T. ShopMirandaBennett.com and use the code CYG20. Get that discount. So here I am with Miranda Bennett.
[interview begins]
Ann: Hi Miranda. Thanks for being on the podcast.
Miranda: Thank you so much. I'm truly so thrilled to be here. Thanks.
Ann: I'm so excited. My voice just went up like six octaves saying hi to you.
Miranda: [laughter] That sounds like something I would do, you're in good company.
Ann: What is that like hi oh my god! Um, yeah, so I, I wonder if you could introduce yourself to our listeners and tell them what you do for a living?
Miranda: My pleasure. Um, my name is Miranda Bennett. I'm the founder and CEO of Miranda Bennett Studio. We are an ethical and sustainable clothing line based in Austin, Texas. And one thing that I think really sets us apart is we plant dye our textiles in-house and we cut, sew, and dye everything here in Austin.
Ann: Oh, okay. I have approximately 1 million questions for you based on, based on your job description alone. But I would love to start maybe back at the beginning, which is like, you know, baby Miranda, did she envision herself doing this someday? Like how did you find yourself at the, at the beginning part of starting your business?
Miranda: Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, truly going back to the baby Miranda, um, which I'm really enjoying that, uh, that nickname for me, um, really how my business started was a little bit unexpected. Um, I had a job in college working at this really cool independent boutique in the West Village. And the owner happened to be kind of at the forefront of this concept of, you know, truly one-off, handwrought more maker based goods. And while I was working there, I would wear garments that I was making myself in my tiny apartment in Brooklyn, and she invited me to start bringing things in. So my senior thesis was actually about, um, sort of returning to a more cottage industry approach to making apparel. So moving away from mass production, moving away from, you know, what was at that time, really the beginning of seeing fast fashion, kind of on the rise and instead offering new, slower, fewer, kind of more homespun items. So it was the perfect job for me, honestly, because she was showing me how it was possible. And my thesis was really meant to demonstrate that it could be also, um, you know, financially possible as a business. So she invited me to present my senior thesis there and that actually led to my first wholesale orders. And we sold out all of the goods that I had made for that collection. Um, so I kind of found myself in this position of, I think I have a business and I thought I was going to like have to wait a very long time to do that. So it was kind of uh you know, catching up to suddenly realizing there was this demand and putting things in place kind of in reverse order. But I think in many ways, a lot of the roots of that first collection and the paper I wrote alongside it are very much still at the heart of what I'm doing now with Miranda Bennett Studio.
Ann: And for people who are listening to this, alas podcasting is not a visual medium. Could you describe maybe like your aesthetic or a little bit of like, I don't know, like it's an interesting challenge because like I have such a clear picture in my mind when I think about your clothes, like both the feel and the vibe and everything, and yeah. Maybe you could describe.
Miranda: Absolutely. Yeah. So the collection is really rooted in pieces that feel as good as they look when you're wearing them. And they're meant to be very, um, approachable in terms of the fit. We're thinking like easy, not super constricted, not super tailored garments, um, easier shapes with dresses, but often with details that allow you to sort of modify the fit. We have a lot of garments like our wrap tops, where you can wear them like, you know, six or seven different ways our knot dress where you can literally shift the belt multiple ways to get multiple different looks from the same apparel item. I really emphasize things that are not fussy, that are more minimal, um, minimalist in terms of the aesthetic and allow the person inside to just truly be the focal point. Another like flip side of that is it really allows the wearer to sort of choose their own adventure with what occasion they're going to wear one of our garments for. And that to me is a huge point of pride. So you could get our everyday dress, which is like a v-neck cap sleeve, um, falls just past the knee dress style and you could put different shoes, accessories with it, and it can go from brunch to a wedding to a day at the office. Um, and that just speaks to my kind of feeling of wanting to provide apparel that is really there for the wearer through all of the different stations of their life. And in that way allows them to have kind of a less fussy wardrobe in the process.
Ann: I'm curious about again, to go back to baby Miranda, is there something about the clothes that you wear when you were growing up or things that you observed that made you want to create in this kind of like unfussy, nonrestrictive, small batch way? Like, you know, do you have like a memory of being put in some horrible, tight trousers?
Miranda: Yeah, that's such a good question. I'm like, what am I trying to heal in the course of this collection? Um, cause, you know, to be honest, like I was given a lot of freedom with my clothing as a kid and I really identified a lot with what I was wearing. So as a very small child, we lived overseas and my sisters would be at school during the day and I'd be at home. And I was like using my clothing literally as almost like playmates. Like I would change multiple times a day and I would name different garments and stuff for different moods and vibes. So, you know, in that way, what it kind of connects to is just that I've always really identified with what clothing I'm putting on my body. Um, but I think in terms of the collection itself and what really started me on the path of creating my clothing, which started probably high school, I guess, is when I started actually sewing my own clothing was just not feeling, um, that I connected in that kind of deeper way with the things that were available to me. So there was this real need of wanting to identify with and feel, um, represented through my apparel in a way that things that I found on the market, you know, in high school, it was also, I just didn't have money. You know, like I wasn't, I didn't have like a shopping budget or something. Um, but you know, as I progressed and got older, it really started to become more about, um, you know, I'm, I'm having this sort of analysis paralysis in the morning about what to even put on myself, let alone factoring in the way, you know, your body can sort of shift throughout the month. Things are, you know, expanding and contracting and all different manner. All, you know, this is kind of the beauty of having the cycles that, uh, you know, we, women that are, are cis-gendered are born with, but like there is a real need to have things that don't dictate what your body is meant to be as you put it inside of the garment. But instead having garments that really allow you to come as you are. So that I think is the big, uh, central theme that I come back to all the time with both designing clothing, but also things I want to put on my body.
Ann: Uh, and it's interesting because obviously a whole clothing industry is built around this notion that like, as our bodies fluctuate, we need to buy a whole new wardrobe. I mean, frankly, like all of capitalism is structured around anytime, anything changes you need to buy a whole new insert whatever. Um, and I'm, I'm curious about like, as you started, as you, as you made a transition from like maybe someone who was close first to someone who was like, oh, I'm a business person, like sooner than I expected. Um, were you met with any resistance about this idea that like things should be, you know, like that bodies might change over the course of a month and you might want a garment that adapts to that, or that may be, um, you don't need 25 shirts when like one nice wrap we'll do that kind of thing.
Miranda: Totally. I think for larger scale buyers, you know, that doesn't work with the business model, which, you know, capitalism and traditional fashion marketing is all centered around this notion or this implantation of this notion that we always need something more. And essentially that we're never enough, you know, so the idea that you are just great as you are, and all you need are these few things to support that definitely is antithetical to the entire structure of, you know, keep buying, keep coming back, keep spending with us. Um, I think the other piece of that is it just wasn't a huge part of the conversation. Um, particularly in, you know, this was the mid-aughts, I guess, is when like 2006 was when I started my line, um, in New York and it was just such a different market and the way that we were talking or even communing or connecting on the consumer level was entirely different than it is now. And I think a huge piece of that was just, there was no social media and there were truly these like gatekeepers to like what the dialogue and what the conversation was surrounding fashion. So, um, certainly like acknowledgement of the squishier humanity of the consumer, I don't think was like very forefront, you know? Cause it didn't, um, having that kind of like vulnerability and humility was just like, not the vibe, you know, it was a very different market.
Ann: Gosh, that's so interesting because like, I think about all the time, how the best thing I ever did for my body image was learned to so like to kind of get away from like I do or don't fit a number or a style and move toward a, like, this is the shape of my body. Like these are the measurements of my body, roughly, you know what I mean? Like in the, kind of the specifics of that rather than like, um, yeah, right.
Miranda: Like it's like, they're just numbers. It's not loaded. It doesn't have some value associated with it.
Ann: Yeah. Like somehow the value of like my hips are X number of inches at the widest part is way less loaded than like I'm a size, whatever, you know what I mean? Like
Miranda: Oh, completely. Yeah.
Ann: And I think like, um, you know, I, I forget sometimes this is going to sound like really up my own, but like I forget sometimes about like the experience of the world of not being able to alter or make your own clothes and like, and I, I see like, you know, you're totally right. Like a huge shift in the desire for more knowledge about like specific bodies. Um, and, and like, you know, adaptable clothes, like the ones that you make that are like elastic or blousier or a little less blousey on different bodies, but essentially the same garment. And, um, you mentioned social media as a thing that's really changed since the mid aughts. Um, and I'm wondering if you could say a little bit more about that, like for better or for worse. Cause I think we hear a lot about like the body image negatives of being on social media and less about this kind of a possibility model or maybe more interest in, in a different kind of shopping or clothing experience.
Miranda: Yeah. I think a big part of it is there's no longer this erasure of who, you know, marketers want to sort of put at the forefront of this as the desired form, you know, of women, of man, of whatever. And I think, um, you know, this sort of sense of saying I'm here, you know, I'm here, I have needs, I want to be acknowledged. And I think that part of social media that literally, and I think it's led to so much incredible body positivity in so many other ways IRL, beyond social media. And I, I do think it's like a side of it that, um, you know, I see a very strong corollary just from being on the before and now on the after, but I don't know, um, you know, like how much that, you know, we focus so much on bullying and all of the parts of social media that can be so it's like, you know, for kids, there's this whole new space to be like scrutinized well, on the flip side, I think there is this whole new space to be celebrated. And I think that's been one of the most incredible parts is like, you know, if this magazine isn't going to publish my body, I am going to publish it myself. You know, I am self publishing on my page, on my feed and I'm connecting with others that are in the same boat as me. And I think that is one of the biggest atrocities of the system that we live in and the way that, you know, there's so much self-loathing built in to just identity formation and our culture. Um, I think on the other side of that, there is this opportunity to like really like wipe that away. And, and to really instead say like, oh, I don't have crazily big arms or I'm not a freak for not fitting into this size. I mean, that was something that came up so much. We just rolled out a new sizing initiative a few months back to make the collection even more inclusive. So we've gone from primarily one size or like a one to three size to now having six sizes and we range 00 to 30 currently. And we hope to just continue expanding, but like in the process of doing the fit testings that informed those patterns, so many women as we were taking measurements at check-in would be like, oh, I'm like, you know, I'm embarrassed about this or about that. Or I just have freakishly large arms or I have, you know, X, Y, Z, but we'd hear the same exact sentiment over and over and over again, you know? So it's like, oh wow. Every single woman thinks that she has freakishly large arms though, that, that alone disqualifies that very concept that there's anything unusual going on here, you know? And I, I just think that, um, I'm, I'm on a real ramble now, but anyway, I just, I think there is like a real, um, a shift in terms of just visibility. And I think in visibility so much becomes possible because just to see yourself is so empowering. And from that, I think so many more conversations are able to form.
[music]
Ann: You know, one thing that I hear or read over and over as part of the reductive conversation about why is clothing not size to be representative of the population, particularly the population of women. One thing I hear over and over is it's like so hard to fit bodies that are above like a size eight or something. Like, it feels like every article ends up there. And so I would love to hear more about your fit process and like, is it actually harder to fit bodies in a wider range of sizes?
Miranda: I mean, I think it's that we have to look at sort of what fitting has looked like for, you know, traditional fashion brands and how it was established. And, you know, it did really, this sort of idea of streamlined sizing was the product of the industrialization of fashion, which actually coincided with wartime. I think it was really like during the first world wars where they were like, we can't have, you know, we need quantity of things that will fit multiple sized bodies, you know, that are all going to be uniformed because they're literally uniforms. Well, that concept in that system was originally created for men who have a very different set of tailoring, but those same kind of rules and systems translated over to women's apparel. And a lot of it basically started from, okay, we'll say our size four is the normal person, the standard body. And when we grade meaning when we adjust the patterns to create additional sizes, we'll just have one rubric that we're using across all sizes. So every time it goes up, it's this much, you know, it's a quarter inch here, it's half an inch. There it's an inch there in both directions. And that in and of itself is a very flawed methodology. So that has not really changed. That's also part of why, well, when we talk about, well, what even is a size four, if that's like kind of the industry standard. I mean, we've all had the experience of shopping different brands and being like, wow, in this one, I'm a 10 and this one, I'm a 16 and this one, I'm a small, like, I don't know what size I am. You know, there isn't one like universal standard there. Um, so I think we have to kind of unlearn that as normal and for us in the process of, um, of kind of determining even what our new sizing rubric would be. I just wanted to wipe the slate entirely clean and basically say like, okay, we'll convert what previously had been our one size we'll make that sort of our, our, our anchor size, but we're not just going to have one set. Like we add this much here we take away this much here as we go up and down in the sizing scale, that was where our fit tests were really crucial because we literally just had at like, we did, uh, like a Google survey of different peoples, like basically an open call saying, can you come in, can you fill out the survey, tell us what your dimensions are. We got such an array of answers. And based on the answers we tried to look at, you know, basically it was like data analysis of like, where are we seeing corollaries in these groupings? And how can we from there kind of go back and like, think about what trips, what types of adjustments we can do. And some did, you know, like there's things like, okay, we'll adjust the length in this way up and down.
But when it came to other stuff like the shoulder or the arm opening the neck opening, that was all super determined by the individual like people we're meeting with. And so within that, we just wanted to meet as many as possible. So it wouldn't just be okay, well these three bodies informed, you know, this size and this size, we really wanted to do our due diligence. And we ended up having multiple rounds. Once we kind of established those first drafts of what those sizes would be, or we invited those folks to come back in, continue to give us feedback. And, um, you know, the other piece of it was I wanted to make sure the fit and sort of core DNA of our style translated along with that. So it wasn't just like, okay, this dress is going to be oversized on you. And, and more, you know, fitted on you instead, like kind of saying this, this fit of this size on this, you know, proportion person is the same. This is going to inform, I want this same proportional fit on someone. Who's a size 30 as I do on someone who's a size zero. So it really took us a long time. You know, it was like not an overnight process and it's also not, you know, that is like not a, um, it's also not an easy process. It's not a concise one. So I think that is what makes it a bit prohibitive or daunting. Um, when, when people are kind of thinking about re you know, just even not relying on the ease of like such a kind of straightforward systematized way that things have been done, but, you know, I think that's appropriate for who we're making for, and these are organic living beings, you know, so we're not just going to have the same arm shape and the same leg shape. Um, that said, it's like, I think we'll always have room to improve. And I think every brand does, but I think what's really important is to make the effort and also to engage with the audience you're trying to serve versus just prescribing this is what I think will work, you know?
Ann: And what are some of the sacrifices that you feel like you maybe had to make? Were there styles that you were like, don't actually, whoops, this doesn't fit the kind of sizing up and down criteria I want, or like, you know--
Miranda: Oh my gosh, the biggest challenge is length. It's just so hard. I mean, right now we're like, okay, we're going to opt more for the longest version with the idea that hemming is, you know, you can't add length after the garment is made, but you can take length up.
Ann: Tell me about it, Miranda. [laughter]
Miranda: Like you know [laughter] So that was the most inclusive choice we could make, you know, cause it, it allowed for the most flexibility. But I do see that as you know, that did feel like a compromise in the moment of like, gosh, I really wish we could just have these three lengths of everything. It's what gets challenging on the back end is when you think of inventory, you know, cause it's like you go from a one-size garment to six sizes. Well then you go and you talk about different fabrics and colors, et cetera. But then if you add an additional set of link variants in there, it's like that becomes, you know, just to introduce one style becomes a very big footprint. So I think for us, I mean, I do, I do hope to be able to revisit that in the future and at least have two different lengths, but I think that's the thing. I mean, I always go back to this phrase, start where you are, work with what you have, um, by Arthur Ash. And I think for me, I have to remember that in this process because it's like, it's impossible to do to stick the landing the first try every single time. Like it just is. So I think it's important to like give yourself the grace of like, we're going to do the best we can with what we have right now. And in the future, we're just going to keep trying to do better.
Ann: Who are you looking toward? Whether they're like individuals, maybe not even people in your exact business, you know, you just mentioned this Arthur Ash quote, but I would love to know a little bit about like how you collect ideas for not just, you know, style wise, but like how you want to run the business. Like, what are some of the things that have really shaped the decisions you've made recently?
Miranda: Well, this isn't a person, but this is something that I kind of established for myself, which is thinking of Miranda Bennett Studio as being grounded in like three core pillars of sustainability. And to me, those are one, are the processes of materials sustainable? Two, are the outcomes or the steps required to accomplish them sustainable for the members of our team? Like as in, is this in proportion to the amount of work and the type of work that team members are accustomed to dealing with, or is this going to lead to burnout or overwhelm or, you know, uh, just have other detrimental impact on the sustainability of their very positioned within the organization. And then finally, is it economically sustainable? Um, will this decision make good financial sense in terms of enabling the brand to continue accomplishing our goals and our mission? Um, because you know, that is the reality at the end of the day, you have to be financially, economically sustainable, um, to accomplish sustainability as a broader sort of term and concept with the work that you're accomplishing. So that's something that I go back to all the time. And, um, that's kind of, especially for evaluating, um, you know, a new category or, you know, any, any bigger decisions, um, or even like, can we do this event? You know, sometimes it's stuff that basic because all of those things, when you look at like, especially for a brand like ours, that has such a big, um, like process and production footprint in it, we have to be so mindful of the ways in which we can get spread too thin very quickly. So I think that's, to me, that's like the crossroads of all of the meanings of sustainability and I try and just use that to inform all of our decision-making.
Ann: I mean, that sounds really fucking hard, I’m not going to lie.
Miranda: Spoiler alert and having a sustainable fashion brand is really fucking hard. So hard. Like don't, it's not for the faint of heart and it's definitely not easy, you know, it's just, you'll notice the financial, you know, evaluator that's third on my list, you know, but that is, um, another layer or another, you know, ingredient, uh, in terms of why it is so hard because you're, you're not just saying it's bottom line driven. That's always, that's such an easy, wet methodology to make decisions by, and I'm really trying not to do that. And I think that is like a very feminist approach to having a business is to not only, you know, to exclude the, um, the human aspect of, of the work.
Ann: And so what are the ramifications of that been? Because I think about, you know, I often think about in like my own business, people who have the ability to only make choices aligned with their feminist values often have some kind of other financial backstop. Like it's really easy to say no to a bunch of like, um, you know, really surface level celebrity profiles and only write really meaningful things if you don't need to make your money that way. And I think that that kind of holds true across industries, like often the most principled, like way to do it, um, is often not the most compensated. And so I'm wondering like the ramifications for you, um, your own financial stability and like also like, you know, the financial health of the business. Like, I mean, I, I get that it's third, but it's also just like, you know, we, we live in a world where money is super important and like businesses do have to have to like, you know, maintain themselves.
Miranda: Totally. And I appreciate you asking that. Um, I think particularly as like a bootstrapped company and as someone who didn't grow up with, you know, I'm not of means I didn't grow up with means and, uh, you know, from day one of starting my business. It was literally like what I could scrape together and, you know, that has, that has continued to be the case. And, you know, I think there is this sense of like this like, oh, it's like this rarefied space if you're not putting money first. But I think, you know, for me, what it's meant is like the scrappiness that I had to have, you know, as like a woman in her early twenties, trying to make this work is the same, honestly, as, as what I have in the day-to-day of the business now, because I think that's an opportunity actually in the sustainability space is you're really talking about not wasting materials. So in our case, things like our zero waste initiative that we've done since 2016 means we literally don't throw away any of our garment, like any of the scraps from the fabric that we cut to make our garments, we make new products with those and we sell those for a profit, you know? So there's, um, there's this way that like really being, um, it's funny, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm about to say really being scrappy as I'm talking about using fabric scraps is like the most ridiculous thing. But, you know, truly to, to like to understand that that doesn't mean like putting people and planet first does not mean we're not profit motivated or profit aware. Um, because I think at the end of the day, that's like, I owe that to my team to always be factoring that in, but I will definitely factor in their well-being and my own wellbeing above that. So it's kind of, it's not to say I'm not aware of, or in, you know, I always have the bottom line in sight. I think that was a big lesson for me too, in the process of growing and establishing my business was even if you're an artist and even if this is not the kind of thing, you know, even if it's like heavy or intense to have to be so aware of your cashflow situation and your cash position, it is so essential and only bad things come from denying that. I think on the flip side, it's just, where does that sit in the hierarchy of needs for the day to day of, of myself and my team.
Ann: Has there ever been a moment when, um, you were like, this isn't working, this is just too hard. I'm going to go design clothes for a not huge and evil, but like bigger clothing company or I'm going to like be--
Miranda: Oh yeah, yeah. I think like, absolutely. And I think it's like, I feel like most entrepreneurs have, they're like really funny, like, well, I always get that job at Staples. Get those benefits. Like, it's honestly more of like, I, like I saw a really funny meme that was like the OJ Simpson white Bronco was like, this is a small business owner and all of the cop cars behind it were like the IRS, like mean people on Instagram, like the family that, you know, you're neglecting, like there's so many layers to like how, you know, what you give up to do to walk this path. And at the same time, I think the biggest is the isolation of it. I think it really can be a lonely space at times because everyone's individual business and individual set of challenges are just very unique to them and idiosyncratic to whatever the space that they're in is. And, you know, you can have very sympathetic partners, friends, uh, you can even have, you know, networks of other people that are doing, you know, that are kind of walking a similar path, but you know, at the end of the day, you're always kind of alone in the weight of what you're shouldering and what you're burying. And I think it's healthy and natural to evaluate that at times and say, is this something, you know, is this sustainable for me? And I think every, every business person has that like exit fantasy. And for me, it's just like, I just always come back to the same place of like, I just have, I couldn't imagine myself doing anything else. I know that's like cliche, but it's true. And, and it really is like, you know, why I even joke about like, I'll just get a job at Staples or Starbucks or something, because I think if I weren't to be doing this, I would almost just need to be doing something completely different. Cause I think it would be too painful to be close, but to not have it be, you know, my true vision.
Ann: I want to tell you about an experience I had recently, which is that, um, I was chatting to a friend of mine who's in a sustainability grad program. And he was like, you know, weirdly, um, like, you know, and he named a brand and he was like, they don't advertise themselves as being super sustainable because they don't think it moves product, but they're actually like one of the best companies, one of the best kind of like big well-known companies and, and right, exactly. And I'm not naming them for a reason, just a minute. And I was like, okay, like, and I needed, I needed a new thing. And so I chose this company based on this knowledge from my friend and the product arrived in the biggest box I have ever seen like, like a ridiculously oversized box for the size of the product. And I know this was like some like background info. It wasn't like the company's positioning itself this way. But like, I really felt like I had been had, I really was like, I'm making a good choice. And then it came and I was like, oh, I'm not making a good choice. There's no choices. And, and I'm wondering if you have advice for people on the consumer side of things, as they think about wanting to support brands that have a really not just like on an environmental level, but like the kind of wide ranging definition of sustainability that you described a little bit earlier. Like what, what do we look for? How do I know that it's not just some like, you know, eco washing scam? Um, what do I do as a consumer?
Miranda: Yeah. Well, and I appreciate the question just, just to even have that posed, because I think unfortunately we do exist in a climate and a culture where so much of the sort of responsibility and ultimately discernment falls on the consumer. Um, there's so, so little in place in terms of really, um, you know, ensuring that there are mindful practices in place that are mindful of the environment where we just don't have that kind of regulation. I think I'm starting to see more, um, you know, and often it's more on a municipality level, but, you know, at the end of the day it does mean so much more of the sort of burden of choice and, you know, due diligence is on the consumer. So I appreciate the question just being posed. Um, I think for me, selfishly as a small business owner, I would just say like, you know, the smaller the business that you're interfacing with, the more access you actually have, um, you know, like oftentimes the owners or people very close to them in the organization are the ones on social media, um, when you're dealing with a smaller brand. And it really is in terms of local economy, a huge boon to that economy to shop with small businesses. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like, you know, some, somewhere in the realm of 60 to 70 cents of every dollar spent with a local, small businesses remains in the community. Um, I think that is just so massive when you think of, um, you know, smaller operations that are really trying to make a difference. Um, and just the ripple effect that that can have on the local economy and the local jobs. But I think in terms of broader, you know, decision-making around things like toilet paper or, you know, household goods or, you know yeah, cleaning products, whatever things that we really need to use on a daily basis. I think even considering how you're shopping is so important, like what you just described with that packaging fail is like so common and unfortunately, I've been reading a lot recently actually about, um, sustainability and supply chains and, you know, which is better in person shopping or e-commerce shopping. And e-commerce shopping generally is because there's just one vehicle moving these goods from location to location versus every individual purchase being attached to an individual in a car driving to and from. But then you have those experiences where you're like, why was my paper towel roll bubble wrapped and sent in a box that could have fit and microwave, you know, and I think that's where, um, I think there are better options.
And I, you know, I think that is where, like the more humanity that can be involved even in those steps is so vital, things like Amazon, I think are often the biggest perpetrator in these sort of packaging fails because it's so systems oriented that no, one's actually having that human intervention of like, wait a minute, I don't need to bubble wrap this thing. You know, I could practically just have a stamp on it and go, but you know, I think what's important is when you're looking, um, just on a broad level at a brand and deciding if this is the one that you want to vote with your dollars towards really seeing what kind of information is available and what information is not. And I think you just have to have a bs filter for a lot of this stuff too. Um, I don't know if that actually helps. I think I'm just pointing out all this stuff that makes it so challenging, but you know, I do think at the end of the day where you can, shopping locally, um, shopping mindfully in terms of like combining trips to like one area, if you know that you are going to go in person, like, think about like places where you can like have the biggest impact in multiple businesses in one smaller area. Um, also just thinking about like what makes the most sense to purchase online versus what makes the most sense to purchase in person and, um, really looking at the company that you're, that you're shopping with and making sure that, you know, they're, they're being transparent, that information is available to you. Um, if it's not, you should wonder why, because it is often very intentional when things are excluded.
Ann: And are there any, are there any shortcuts, like, are there like, you know, I see sometimes brands that tout themselves as sustainable, we'll say we're certified by, and then like, insert like a label or like a, I don't know, like, um, is there any of that stuff that you think is actually useful to look for in terms of, um, you know, maybe how the textiles are produced or things like that?
Miranda: Yeah. I think it's totally worthwhile to look into that, to see if things are actually like organic certified. I think when you get into some of the certifications around labor practices, I find those to be a little bit less meaningful. Um, mostly because those are things that can be bought and, and, or forged. Um, and unfortunately, you know, if it's a lot for a brand to keep up with, if they're manufacturing overseas and they, you know, they work with this one place and, you know, they present that they have this certificate at the time that you're, you're quoting with them, whatever, like that is not due diligence, you know, like actually going and seeing and walking the floor and understanding what's going on to me is, is pretty essential. And I, I just think when people only have like, well, we work with ethical factories period, like what does that really mean? I think that's a big part for me of why we manufacture in-house and domestically is like, to me, it's just critical to see the faces, to know the names, to, to get the process of like, what is actually going down. Um, but I think materials are, are certifications that I trust more. And, um, I also think like really looking at where something is made is very important. Um, I've been surprised oftentimes to see that, you know, a brand at a specific price point that I think of a certain way, I'll like have one of their garments in hand. And the label says like, you know, made in China or made wherever. I mean, that's not to say made in China is bad, but that does make me want to dig deeper and understand a little bit more about what those conditions are and what, what the brand is willing to share about that manufacturing partnership.
Ann: Yeah. And then, and then the other, the other thing that I think about a lot when it comes to brands that self-doubt as sustainable versus like actual, um, sustainability is just the price point. Like I think that, um, everybody can look at like a $5 garment and know that that is not sustainable, um, on a variety--
Miranda: Unless it’s from a thrift store.
Ann: Thank you, unless it's from a thrift store. A new $5 garment and, and know that that's not sustainable, but I also think that like, you know, I, the vast majority of people are budget constrained too. And so to sort of say like, okay, like, how do I balance, honestly, the sticker shock of a truly sustainably priced garment with like my desire to have three cute things, as opposed to this one. Yeah. Like how do you think about that? And, and, you know, maybe I would love to know about how you, conversations you've had with like your consumers or like, I don't know. It seems, it seems like it'd be really, really hard to price stuff for this reason.
Miranda: Oh, totally. And, and it isn't, I'm so aware of that because like I said, like I don't come from a, uh, a wealthy background. I, I didn't, I mean, I started sewing in high school because literally like outside of my grocery store job, there was no spending money, you know? Um, so I totally understand that. And that very much speaks to the roots that I, that I come from. But I think what it all comes down to is cost per wear and the true cost to the environment and the humans that are supplied that are engaged in the supply chain. So I think like we, as consumers have really grown accustomed to purchasing more for less keeping things for far less time and then disposing of them and the cycle continues. So our suggestion is really just that you buy less, keep things longer. And in that process, the cost of that garment is exponentially going down when you keep it for three years and you've worn it two times a week for the majority of that time, that said, I still understand the, the like onboarding, you know, like when you first make that kind of conversion, it feels like, okay, I got one dress cool, I’m going to go shopping again three years. Yeah. Like it's, it's not an easy transition. And I completely appreciate that. I do challenge people to actually add up what they have spent over the course of the previous year, spending $5 here, $20 there, $40 there at such a regular clip, because that truly is, I mean, when you look at the numbers on consumer spending trends, that is like, just so astonishing to see how much our actual frequency of spending has, like more than doubled as retention dwindles. So like we are spending money, even if you don't think you're spending that much on clothing. If you go back and look at what you spent over the last year, you might find you have far more spending power and far more skin in the game than you realized.
And so the challenge or the request is really how much of that can you to dedicating to things that, you know, are made in a way that does consider earth and individual, you know, and of course speaks to your aesthetic desires and your needs as a person wearing this garment. No one's asking you to sacrifice that. Um, I think to supplement, you know, making those bigger investments, there are options available, like secondhand shopping. I love thrifting. I had one of my dearest friends would always say my favorite thing about thrifting stores that I can walk in, and I know I can afford anything in the place. And that is like such a fun feeling. You know, if you prefer things more curated, you can go to like more of like a vintage store, uh, situation where like, things are going to have been kind of pre sorted and cleaned for you. There are sample sales, there's being like, you know, kind of a more disciplined shopper that waits for seasonal markdowns waits for. Like we, for example, have like, at least once a year, we do like a big studio sale where we have things that start at like 5, 10 and $20. Um, so it's important for me to, as a brand that I know we, we keep things accessible to all budgets, um, in the ways that we can. But I, yeah, I think at the end of the day, it just really, we're talking about buying less, keeping things longer and just having a bit more intention, um, in, in terms of making those purchases.
Ann: We're almost out of time, but I want to do a quick lightning round if you're up for it.
Miranda: Sure.
Ann: I'm, I'm going to throw a new one in, based on a concept you just introduced me to, but, um, can you identify your like highest, like, are you sorry, your lowest cost per wear garment, like in your closet? Is there something that you're just like I've worn this actually a bajillion times.
Miranda: Oh, the everyday dress in silk, all day, all day long, in black, because that's like the New York and me that I can't shake. I mean, I still have one from like the very first run that I sewed myself in 2013. So at this point, I think I'm making money when you wear it. Yeah.
Ann: Amazing. Um, what is, uh, another brand, not your own, um, or item from another brand that you are just like a super-duper fan of?
Miranda: Oh, man, I love the brand First Rite. She, uh, her name is Nikki she's based. I think in San Francisco, her stuff is just so well tailored. It's the perfect counterpoint to my like easier shapes. And I have like trench coats and jumpsuits from her that I still just, I wear constantly.
Ann: Love it. Okay. Favorite snack of all time?
Miranda: you know, what's so funny. I had the most anxiety with this question.
Ann: Do you need to name six snacks? You can do that.
Miranda: Well, I think it's because I'm actually more inclined for like a dirty chai as a snack, which might account for my anxiety. Um, but I also, I love a hummus situation. I love, um, like a mango or coconut popsicle. Um, I love fruit, but I really enjoy getting caffeinated on the regs. So usually it's more like some sort of iced caffeinated beverage in the tea variety, but sometimes I'll soup it up with a little shot of espresso. Cause I'm a maniac.
Ann: That fully counts. I actually think that an elaborate beverage can be a snack, maybe a controversial point of view.
Miranda: [laughter] Right, there's protein in there. Right?
Ann: Yeah. Um, yeah, finally, a big friend who you want to shout out.
Miranda: I want to shout out my COO Gabriela Ainslee who happens to also be a dear friend, but it's just someone who I admire and trust implicitly. She has incredible professional chops on top of that, but I think she really is like the glue that keeps our team happy and humming. And I don't know where I'd be without her. So that's who I'd love to highlight.
Ann: I love that, um, Miranda, where can our listeners find you and your garments?
Miranda: You can find us at MirandaBennettStudio.com. I'm on Instagram at Miranda Bennett Studio and at our Austin storefront on east 11th street at the corner of Navasota. Um, but yeah, online, we have everything waiting for you there. And we also have an incredible team of people that are on the other end of our email account and our like chat option online who are so like motivated by matching a person with their dream garment. So they're, they're also a big part of, um, what you'll find when you seek us out.
Ann: Amazing. Thank you so much for being on the show.
Miranda: Thank you for inviting me. It was truly a pleasure to talk to you and I miss you and Amina. I can't wait till I see all IRL one of these days, again.
Ann: Someday far in the future. I know. I can’t wait for you to figure out multiple lengths. I can't wait for my like Miranda Bennett XXL.
Miranda: I know. Just know that it's in there. It's definitely something we are mindful of and I will be so pleased when we can offer that. So just, just keep bearing with us cause we're definitely working on it.
Ann: When I totally burn out on doing the media things that I do and decide to become a like tall fem fashion entrepreneur, I will be hitting you up for all of your knowledge as I transform.
Miranda: Oh my gosh, please. That sounds so I can't wait to meet her. Please do.
[interview ends]
Ann: Oh, Miranda is truly the best. And I love hearing about alternative models to the dominant way of doing business. Um, if you are interested in learning more about how she works, um, or maybe purchasing one of her garments, you can go to ShopMirandaBennett dot com. Use code CYG20. If you want a little perk little discount. And um, now I'm going to go wrap myself in some linen as befitting, a woman of my age and station.
[outro music]
Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet: callyourgirlfriend.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, we're on all your favorite platforms. Subscribe, rate, review, you know the drill. You can call us back. You can leave a voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. Our theme song is by Robyn, original music composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Our logos are by Kenesha Sneed. We're on Instagram and Twitter at @callyrgf. Our producer is Jordan Bailey and this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.