So You Want to Change the World
11/19/21 - Can’t be that hard, right? We pass the mic to Nereya Otieno, one of Ann’s 2021 writing fellows, who sits down with two women who have started initiatives to improve the lives of a select few in hopes that it can spark a radical shift.
Tia Korpe is the founder of Future Female Sounds, a nonprofit organization based in Copenhagen that aims to make DJing accessible to women and gender-minorities everywhere. Cybille St. Aude-Tate is a chef and children’s book author and the co-founder of Honeysuckle Projects, a multifaceted endeavor to engage community and lineage through nourishment with Afrocentric ideologies at the center. And Nereya is in the process of starting Rising Artist Foundation, an organization to give grants to musicians who typically fall outside the existing funding system. They all redefine the idea of entrepreneurship as an act in service of community.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Executive Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Composer: Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.
Producer: Jordan Bailey
Visual Creative Director: Kenesha Sneed
Merch Director: Caroline Knowles
Editorial Assistant: Mercedes Gonzales-Bazan
Design Assistant: Brijae Morris
Ad sales: Midroll
LINKS
Future Female Sounds:
Honeysuckle
Rising Artist Foundation
TRANSCRIPT: SO YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE WORLD
[Ads]
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend
Ann: A podcast for long distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: I’m Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman.
Aminatou: What's up this week?
Ann: Today's episode was put together by Nereya Otieno, who is one of two writing fellows associated with my newsletter, which is not a CYG product, but, um, that's how she and I got to know each other. And when she mentioned that she wanted to convene a panel of women entrepreneurs who are working outside the strictly money-making space and trying to do things in service to their communities. I was like, yes, let's have that conversation. So I'm going to chat with Nereya a little bit. Um, and then, uh, she is going to talk to two other entrepreneurs. It's like, it really is like a kind of telephone, like a pass the mic and then pass it again.
[theme song]
Ann: Here I am with Nereya.
Nereya: Tia Korpe is the founder of Future People Sounds, it's a nonprofit organization, a global community and a booking agency, um, all representing female and gender minority DJs globally. And Cybille is a chef, a children's book author, and the co-founder of Honeysuckle Projects, which is a lot of things as you'll learn, but it is a multifaceted endeavor to like engage community through nourishment and lineage of Afrocentric ideologies, specifically in food and Black foodways.
Ann: And what made you want to talk to these two entrepreneurs together?
Nereya: First of all, I love food and I love music. And so being able to talk about that. Yeah. I'm a, one of the very select few who has interest in those things. Um, but just to see how they both are growing such projects from the ground up and doing so with like a lot of hustle that isn't shined on, because if you know them, you see it, but if you don't know them, then you, it kind of just, you just don't assume it's easy.
Ann: Yeah. And also it's interesting, you use this word hustle and I use the word entrepreneur, which are so often associated with like tech companies or like the recently declared dead girlboss, or not so much with community serving, community feeding, community centric efforts. Like what both these women are up to.
Nereya: Exactly. It's funny, like there's so many of those, you know, like kind of magazine profile with the hero shot of the lady COO with her fingers crossed shot from below and, um, talking about how these people are like changing industry, but yeah, it doesn't, you don't get the same attention in community facing and community serving organizations where it takes the same amount of resourcefulness, the same amount of ingenuity, the same amount of like innovation, um, and just time, attention, heart, um, sleepless nights and all of that. And so I really wanted to talk to them about their processes.
Ann: And you also have a personal vested interest in this topic because you're also an entrepreneur in this vein.
Nereya: Yeah. I'm in the process of starting my own 501-C3 with my colleague, Ben, it's called Rising Artist Foundation. And we are also looking to support a very specific group and a specific interest and just talk about how we can grow that. And just what it's like to start something from the ground up that is very community facing and the struggles that we're encountering with that.
Ann: What is your organization all about?
Nereya: Well, we are trying to just offer a new, the thing is the US has absolutely no federal system for supporting emerging musicians, especially if they're outside of like classical music, classical music, or that sort of thing has a lot of support, but anyone working within alternative music, it's really difficult. There's so many barriers to entry from social barriers, economic barriers, racial barriers, gender barriers, all these things that also the algorithm is like exasperating in a lot of ways. So it's really difficult for emerging musicians with talent to enter if they don't have privilege. And so we just want to offer another, another way into the industry.
Ann: I love that you were able to have this conversation with them as a peer. I think that's one thing that makes it really special. And I also love this contribution to expanding and enriching what it means to be an entrepreneur in this country. Let's listen to you and Tia and Cybille.
Nereya: Woohoo!
[interview begins]
Tia: My name is Tia Korpe and I'm the founder and director of Future Female Sounds.
Nereya: And Cybille?
Cybille: Yep. I am Cybille St. Aude-Tate. I am the co-founder and the COO of Honeysuckle Projects.
Nereya: Thank you both for being here. I just, so you know, like I'm super excited to talk to both of you. And part of the reason why I wanted to put the two of you together is because I feel like there's all these, um, you know, like profiles and magazines and stuff about like this boss chick is changing the game and cosmetics, or, and there's like a, you know, like a hero shot with her arms crossed and shot from below, like talking about these women that are really switching up industries. And it's, I, when I, when I met both of you, I thought like these they're doing the same thing, but it's just like, not meant to make a bunch of other people money. It's just like for the, for the greater good and the amount of hustle and skill and everything that you guys have. So then I thought, why don't we shed some light onto people that are doing that and talk about that process and how they're going. And I really wanted to get the two of you also in conversation, because I'm sure that when you're starting new stuff, it's like sometimes you don't know who to talk to and how to get like, you know, create that community for yourself. Um, so one thing that I also want to do really quickly is this Tia you're involved with music and Cybille, you're mostly involved with food. I want to kind of ask you guys a question about each other. Um, so, so what was the last song that you've played?
Cybille: Oh, wow. This is, that's a good question. Oh, we've been doing a lot of driving and, um, I have an old car that has like a CD deck and I, I mean, I had an aux, but I just enjoy playing CDs. And so it's like a five disc changer and there's like five very good albums in there. But the one that I most enjoy when I'm driving in the streets of Philadelphia, because it makes me crazy and frenzied is, um, is that To Pimp a Butterfly by Kendrick? Yeah. So, um, uh, the intro track is kind of what I enjoyed the drive through drive to, um, cause it's got that nice little funk, very, um, parliament kind of vibe. And, uh, I, I hope to always be in a state of parliaments, everyday.
Nereya: State of parliament, George is so proud. And Tia what's the last, what's the last thing you ate then, Tia?
TIa: Um, I just literally ate a kebab, um, about one hour ago because I was rushing from my house to get to the office, and realized I hadn't eaten, which is like me on a daily basis realizing I haven't eaten and I'm hungry. And, um, there's this amazing kebab around the corner for like $4. Um, so I'm good. I'm, I'm fed, I have energy again.
Nereya: Nice. I appreciate you translating that into dollars for us. Tia is in Copenhagen. Okay. When was like an instance that sticks out in your mind that made you really believe you had to pursue your idea? Let's um, let's start with you Tia. So this idea of making deejaying accessible to women globally, um, and just giving them an education with that. When is there an instance that sticks out for you to pursue that?
Tia: Yeah, I think there's, um, there's a few instances. Um, I, for me, it was a long process. Like it was kind of like bits of pieces of a puzzle that I knew I had and I had to make it, but I kept finding a new piece. Um, so the puzzle wasn't complete yet, but I think it started for me when I was working for another nonprofit organization where I was coordinating and teaching music workshops for refugees for children and teenagers across the middle east. So, uh, we used to work in refugee camps and in all of the classes, the genders would be mixed. So we would have boys and girls, um, together working, learning how to, how to write, how to rap, how to DJ. And I noticed that the girls would always hold back a little bit. Um, and I think that's when I realized that learning in a safer space is really, really important. This was like 10 years ago. Um, and I think it just, it became really apparent to me that like learning a skill in a room where people look like you and where the instructors are, the mentors, uh, that are there also look like you, it just creates better conditions for flourishing and for developing talent, um, and having role models. Uh, it's so important. And then I think the second kind of milestone was when I was working at this music festival called Roskilde festival, which is like one of Northern Europe's biggest music festivals. And I was hired to kind of observe and create a campaign that highlighted the lack of female artists on stage. And I was walking around the festival and like going to different stages and seeing all these big performers. And I was like, where are the female DJs at? Like, there were just literally no DJs that were female. Um, interestingly enough, like two years later, I came back to that festival as a DJ, um, on one of the main stages for actually one of our common friends Neyera, Madame Gandhi.
Nereya: Shout out to Kiran.
Tia: Yeah. Um, and I think being there, um, and seeing this absolute lack of representation of female DJ is it realized that, you know, I realized there was a real need to advocate for female DJs, but also to create more spaces and more gigs for them. Yeah.
Tia: Cool. And what about for Cybille? Was there a specific moment when, I mean, maybe you also want to talk about everything that Honeysuckle Provisions encapsulates, um, and just, if there was a moment where you were just like, this is something that we, this needs to happen.
Cybille: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um, so, um, I guess, I guess I start with, yeah. Talking about Honeysuckle and Provision specifically, um, it's Provisions is a model where we are taking the grocery store, a supper club, a cafe, a library, a community center of center and placing it in one and one structure. Um, but still holding true to Afrocentric values and promoting Black foodways. Um, and really trying to shift, um, the, the culture of food of the food industry. Um, my, my kind of, um, I had a similar experience, um, to Tia where, as it was early on in my career, I would say that I noticed that we don't have spaces for us, um, for women chefs, for Black women chefs. Um, and more specifically, I mean, my family's from Haiti. So for Haitian women chefs, um, we, we are in an industry that is, does not promote us, does not support us. And so it was evident very early on that we needed spaces to feel seen, to feel safe, um, to have the freedom, to create and to express our Blackness on a plate. Um, and that's what Honeysuckle is. It's, it's a chef-driven concept that comes into the community and pours into the community, um, and offers sustainable produce, um, items and goods from Black farmers, Black makers, um, Black and brown farmers and makers, to be honest, um, in, in our kind of Pennsylvania Jersey, Maryland area. Um, and COVID made it explicitly clear that there were discrepancies within the communities with the marginalized communities of who got food, who got the good food. Um, and so it was, so this is an idea that both my husband and I had always kind of, um, kind of mulled on was just like wanting to have spaces for, to celebrate Blackness and food. Um, and once the pandemic hit, we realized we need to make sure that these communities get fresh, produce, get good produce. And aren't getting, you know, things that come off trucks and stay on trucks and kind of are pumped with all these chemicals. And we just really wanted to make sure that we were serving our communities, what they deserve. Um, and, and so Honeysuckle Provisions gives us the opportunity to actualize that dream.
Nereya: And I cannot wait until it's. And so that building is there, you're both focusing on such a specific group, a specific group and a specific interest. And I'm wondering what have been in your process of building these ideas, both the advantages and disadvantages of that. Like, what are, let's start with, let's start with the disadvantages. So you can go on the positive note, what have been some obstacles to really focusing in on a group that you see needs help.
Cybille: So for us, it's, it's been a challenge trying to, trying to convince, and I even hate to say the word convince, but trying to convince folks of Black humanity has been an ongoing battle. Um, and I say that to say that oftentimes Black food is devalued. Um, you know, grips are Southern exclusively Southern food items or ingredients or recipes and dishes, Caribbean ingredients, recipes, dishes, um, African, West African ingredients dishes are often, um, valued less than, um, versus their, uh, kind of Eurocentric, um, or even American white American counterpart, um, recipes and dishes. And so for us, it's always, it's always been the fight to convince folks that black people or people in, in minority communities deserve good food, net, fresh food, fancy food, any type of food they really want. Um, it's, that's been the hardest part is that we're in these meetings and, and folks just sometimes don't see the value in why li we want to, um, subsidize some of these like fresher ingredients or, or like international, uh, seasonings or spices that come from Africa. We need to subsidize the cost. Um, so our community can afford it. Um, but whereas, you know, if, if you want to go and get a fancy dinner and folks will pay $300 to go to like one of the best establishments in New York city or wherever, whereas we're having to consistently remind folks that like, we deserve good things too. We deserve yummy things too. And so I'm constantly feeling like you have to like, have your guard up that you're not only defending your concept. You're defending a whole, a whole community, a whole culture, a whole race is really daunting. And that has definitely been challenging, um, in our endeavors because it's just not seen, um, as valuable and it should be okay.
Nereya: Right. And it's something that both of you do. I mean, like when you're arguing for things, you're arguing for yourself, you know, you're arguing for a Black chef, interested in promoting Black foodways and tea is arguing for a female DJ. Uh, and it's just, I don't think people realize that sometimes when they're like actively saying they want to support something, but then saying, no, it's like, they're looking directly at you and saying, I actually don't really believe that's maybe not all the time what they're saying, but it's–
Cybille: Yeah. Or oftentimes it's kind of like, well, folks want to support you, but they want to support you on their terms, which is not why we're here, we're here because we have a vision. I want to do something. I have an end goal. I have a dream. I have a cause that I'm trying to, um, I'm trying to accomplish, I'm trying to help people. Um, and so that you can't, someone else can't determine the value of that. They cannot determine how much, um, value they see in, in our, our vision or our goal. Um, and so oftentimes like, you know, things can't happen on anyone else's time. They have to happen on your time. You have to happen on your terms. Um, but when people are giving you money or investing, they kind of want to, they want to set, set those demands and kind of determine, um, determine those parameters, which sucks.
Tia: Yeah. Everything. Um, the symbol is saying resonates a lot. Um, I mean, one of our biggest challenges has really been to kind of open the doors to the music industry and convince gatekeepers, bookers, um, anyone who is working within the music industry, that female and gender minority DJs are obviously just as talented as their male colleagues. Um, and that sometimes seems like you're, you know, you're, we're working for something that's so obvious, but that still needs to be explained. Um, and then also with, you know, with pay like equal pay, uh, is something that we advocate a lot for that, of course the female and gender minority DJs should receive exactly the same pay as their male colleagues. Um, and our other challenges have, have really had to do with, with funding. I would say, you know, like, although diversity, especially in the music industry is such a hot topic and lots of brands and foundations and companies want to jump on board. You know, what strikes me is still how little money is being invested into organizations, um, like hours or communities, um, and how much work we have to do to convince others that like, yo, like this is important and we're shaping what the future looks like, and it should be a priority. You know, if, if you can pay, I don't know, millions of dollars for a campaign for like a soda, um, surely you should be able to also invest in communities and non-profit initiatives that are actually changing people's lives.
Nereya: Definitely. And it's, it's, I think the funding aspect, this is something that I've been talking about a lot in, in getting in, getting my organization off the ground is that it's so hard. I know for sure if we were to talk to a lot of people and say, listen, if you give us X amount of money, we'll be able to get 500 artists and give them like a two day camp. And you can say you've changed the lives of 500 artists, but then it's like, okay, that's something we did from one day. But what we made, we were like playing the long game. We want quality over quantity. We don't want, it's not just, we're not our organization. Is it for someone else to be able to only talk at a dinner party and say like, look at all these people, I helped. We want them to be able to really see the value in investing in some form of change. And so the return isn't going to be as immediate. It's not as packageable for them to be able to say, uh, look at all these lives I've changed. I'm like such a good person, but we really want them to, to, to really like see the value and the issues in the system. They're all operating in, that is, I mean, it's functioning of course, but it's not necessarily, it's not setting us up to better. The people involved in it. It's not setting, we're not set up to better black chefs. We're not set up to better, um, black knowledge about, about food. We're not set up to better women in like, you know, diversifying the music industry globally. And there's like really intense investments that need to happen. Not just like a day time fun thing. That's really easy to sell. Um, is this making sense what I'm explaining?
Cybille: Yeah, totally. Um, and, and you see it too. I mean, and often it trickles into other aspects. Um, uh, it was on a panel and we were talking about, um, cookbooks and recently we've seen like an uptick and, um, publishers reaching out to get more, um, Black writers or writers of the African diaspora to like share their stories into cookbooks and to write these stories. Um, but there it's, it's almost as if it's on someone else's timeline and they don't have the grace of three years to finish these cookbooks, these editors and publishers want the cookbooks in 18 months. That's a huge feat, but it's, it's all in an effort to capitalize on this moment where, where the perception is that we care a lot about these topics. And let's, let's the quick fix is to throw all, all these black chefs into cookbooks and to throw them into mainstream media and to throw them into these positions for the moment. But that doesn't fix the systemic problem. That's been happening for decades. It's almost a, it's the band-aid approach. It's like, Hey, here you go. We we've got diversity, we've got blackness, we've got all the things are hitting all the quotas, but in the backend of it, the system is still broken. And in the future, we're just going to have the same issue all over again. And so the fight continues.
[ads]
Nereya: Let's pivot then to what are some of the advantages that have, that you both have experienced in terms of being able to like zero in and knowing this is what I'm operating in. If you don't understand, or if you're not interested than like step to the side, has there been, are there any that come to mind there?
Cybille: Well, for me personally, I think it's just, it's been a personal boost. Um, but starting your own business is hard. It's hard as hell. And I don't, I don't have a background in business. I didn't have a background in all these things. And so confidence, especially being like black women in the food industry, confidence is like, you either have it in spades or you're struggling to make yourself known, to make yourself seen. And so kind of doing this work has reaffirmed for me the importance of, of me, um, the importance of people like me, um, and various stories within the Black community that need kind of, um, a boost and that need, that needs to be told. And so, uh, you also, you learn so much about yourself in this process of trying to, of standing up for yourself and standing up for your vision. And so the personally that has been the advantage for me is like, I've gained this confidence in, like, I can, I can tell some powerful people, no, because they don't vibe with what we're trying to do and that's okay. And I don't have to like sell myself because tomorrow a better opportunity might come up and that has happened. Um, and so there's advantages in that. There's also advantages of, of kind of being able to understand your core audience and your community better in doing this work. Um, because oftentimes you have to remind yourself that you're not serving yourself. You're serving a larger community that is very nuanced. That is not monolithic, that has lots of layers and lots of needs. Um, and so kind of being able to stand up for that, um, just gives you a better understanding of really the community you're trying to serve.
Tia: Yeah. So I, it also, um, also resonates with what we do and I think for Future Female Sounds, the advantage is that we have this really beautiful and tight-knit community, that's global. Um, we started with 12 DJs in Denmark, and now we're in a community of over 5,000, um, female and gender minority DJs, um, across the world. So that's been a huge, you know, advantage and, um, just beautiful to see how, how something that started as such small scale, um, has become global. And I think also for me, we just came back from Cairo, Egypt, last week and every single time we do a workshop or a network meeting, I'm just, I'm always so inspired to see how much it means for both emerging and established DJs to actually meet and share and discuss the common challenges that we face. Uh, I think there's a lot of power in that and in facilitating that kind of exchange and conversation, and yeah, also for me personally, I would say that it's, it's very empowering to be able to say no, um, to certain things and to, to really stay true to your, to your mission and your work. Yeah.
Nereya: Both of you are mama's to little ones. Cybille, you have a very little one, super fresh, um, little, little Jupiter who, uh, I have yet, yet to meet and Tia has Leia, um, one of the most adorable beings to ever cross this planet. [laughter] And I am wondering for you guys, if there's any way also with, um, just if nurturing and growing a life, like, has that influenced the way you're approaching, nurturing, and growing these projects at all? Or is this just a really, you know, earth mama reach like am I just sounding like the California hippie I am. [laughter]
Tia: Yeah, I, uh, I mean for, uh, for myself, my, my daughter's now three and a half, um, and my organization is almost four years old, so, uh, it's definitely been a, a growing process because I've had to build an organization while I was growing a human being. Um, and that was hard. Um, but also really, um, motivating. So I think what, I've, what I've had to learn, being a mom and an entrepreneur and, you know, someone who, who wants to change the world, which is very ambitious, um, is that I've, I've learned to have to be much more efficient. First of all, I had to work faster, but not just faster, I've had to work more concentrated, um, because there's only so little time that you get in between, especially when, you know, when you have a small baby. Um, and I think also like the work that I do now becomes even more important because I want my daughter to grow up in a better world. So it just, it makes me more motivated to push for this change. Yeah.
Cybille: Yeah. Um, I, it's so funny, I'm listening to you talk about, um, having to kind of grow a business and raise a human at the same time. Um, and I, I hate that resonates so deeply for me. Um, Jupiter is four months old and we, we started on Honeysuckle Provisions and working towards it, um, around 2020, um, towards like the kind of middle of the pandemic. But obviously when things started opening up, that's when the business picked up pace and we were really moving, um, with, with, um, getting press and, you know, being able to assemble our team and really working towards, um, the vision that we are really, really, really close to now. And I was pregnant at that time. And, um, my husband did a residency up in Tarrytown, New York at blue hill. And I just remember being six months pregnant, running around with him at this residency and thinking to myself, I'm either crazy or a superhuman. And there was a little bit of both.
[laughter]
Cybille: And so being on the other side of it now, and you know, this is a topic I've been really dying to talk about. Cause like, I feel like working moms. I mean, my mom was a working mom, so I understood I saw, but I didn't really understand, um, the things that, the pressures that we go through, the erasures we go through, even where growth and working within our own spaces on things that we've kind of birth, um, human and or business wise. Um, and that is, that's something that has just been really kind of striking for me. And so, um, I'm always down to talk about the ills that society puts on working moms and the pressures that that moms have to experience. But the, the, the beautiful side of that, the upside of that is that, yeah, it does empower you to kind of really go in on your business because you are creating something for someone to carry on when you're gone, if they choose to. We hear the buzzwords of generational wealth and legacy, I know folks like to talk about it to death, but it really is there's there's truth to it. And we're building honeysuckle provisions for, for Jupiter and for my stepson last year to take on when, when they want to, if they want to in the future. But having the option is something that we were, I was never afforded as a first generation child of immigrants. I didn't have the option to fall into ownership. Um, but being in a position to provide that for our children is so important and it's so special in it. And, and if not for us, then at least having something that someone else's child can, can grow into and can have a positive work experience and, um, means so much more. Um, because every time we look at our children, we're looking at the future. And so we're building Honeysuckle for us and for our current communities, but we're building it for 20 years out, um, in hopes to change the way that that people in our communities have a relationship to food. And we can start that from now. And so we always say, we're not really building Honeysuckle for us. We're building it for our children and our grandchildren, because by then, hopefully we've been around enough, long enough to enact change that really can, can kind of affect the whole entire food ecosystem.
Nereya: It's just so exciting. It's, you know, it's like, you, you kind of something you want time to like speed up, you know, you just want to see all these, all these things happen. And I think there's also one thing that I think I've enjoyed watching with you Tia, become a mother while doing all of this work, is that there was there's, there becomes more of a focus on content. I think when you're starting something and also the way we look at ourselves, we're always like, kind of worried about how is this going to be perceived? What does this look like? Like, what are the aesthetics of something, which is really important, but as, as, as Leia was getting older, you, the way you were speaking was changing, it was more about like, she just needs me, you know, like she doesn't need me when I'm cute. She doesn't need me to be funny. She doesn't need, like, she, she just needs me to be there. And I saw the structures and how you were also setting up Future Female Sounds shifting with that as well. That is still like, it still looks good. We still have an aesthetic. We understand, you know, you understand that you're part of the Instagram generation and that people, the way you present yourself does resonate with interest. But the focus on just like, well, what are we doing? And let's just make sure what we're doing is solid. And we can kind of like decorate it later, but we just, we need to be there. We need to be present. We need to fill this gap. And I think that that is something that a lot of other organizations or businesses don't have. And I don't know if that's me, like, you know, conflating the two and saying that you, you became a mother and so then this happened, or for that just would have happened naturally with the progression of the, of the organization itself.
Tia: Yeah, absolutely. I, yeah, I think it's always kind of interesting, you know, hearing it from an outside perspective because, um, to be honest, like I haven't even had a moment in the past four years where I've been able to kind of look at the work we're actually doing from the outside, because they've just been running so fast. Um, so, but yeah, I, I definitely, I agree. I think that becoming a mother or a parent for that matter, um, and, and running a business, um, is, is hard. But at the same time, it's very, very rewarding, um, on both ends. And I do, I do think that it makes the work that we do and the mission that we're on much more, um, important. And there's just this fuel, um, that you get from, from also being a parent that spills into your work life.
Nereya: Yeah. What are some of the choices or sacrifices? Are there moments where you're like, if I had turned this into just a money making machine, this would be way easier than trying to do this, like the right way
Cybille: Literally last night. Um, but my, my husband and I lost this dinner, we went to our friend's restaurant. They own a wonderful, fabulous, um, establishment, Philadelphia called Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And we're just sitting up a bar enjoying a wonderful, like six course menu, cocktails, everything was superb. And we just like, look at each other and we're like, what, what are we doing? Like we could be doing this. We could be owning a restaurant and charging people $300 a head for a 15 course meal of, of like delicious food from the diaspora, because like it's worth it. And we could, like, we could have the best restaurant in the world and we could do this. Like, this is what we could be doing, but then we couldn't do, we couldn't do Provisions, you know, we couldn't be in the community. Um, and it would be great to have that restaurant, but it wouldn't be as fulfilling as the work that we're doing now. And we probably wouldn't be able to reach as many people as we want to reach with what we're building now. Um, so the thought does cross our minds, um, especially when, you know, when payroll is tight for our team and for like a community work, why, but it is, it is, it is so fulfilling. It's far more fulfilling, um, being able to, um, impact others and to help change communities. It's really, it's priceless.
Nereya: I suppose the hope is in the future that you would be able to charge that, but using every like that, that Jupiter, if baby become a chef, but in the future, they can, you know, can all their foodways can be from Black farms where then they're also charging, let's look out for inflation, or maybe we have UBI at that point, fingers crossed. So then they're charging $5.50. Yeah. And, and the, the dream is still there, but they just didn't have to compromise on all the other stuff.
Cybille: Yeah. Living their best chef life.
Nereya: What about, what about for you two? What are some choices or sacrifices? And you're like, if only.
Tia: You know, listen, when I tell people what I make every month after working, you know, almost four years or less full-time, and those people are like, what, um, you know, so obviously still not making money, but I think any, for any of us who work in, you know, community building or in the creative industries, like we, we also know that this is the trade-off like, you don't, you don't go into this industry trying to make money. Um, and I think, you know, in some way maybe it's like the fate for all of us who are, you know, radically trying to change the world. Like maybe it's even the, um, for doing so, is that we're not driven by, you know, money. Um, but then I also, I also think that, like, I, you know, I kind of, I don't like this idea of people who work in nonprofits shouldn't make money or like activism should always be free. Like, I think that in itself is like a consequence of capitalism. And, you know, it sounds like it sounds a bit basic, but like, you know, like why should some dude who works in a tech company or some manager, a CEO who like profits of, you know, exploiting labor, like why should they make a million while doing absolutely nothing for this world while people who are really passionate and knowledgeable and a changing things, um, are, you know, trying to get by. So it's also about kind of, you know, leaving that idea behind that because you are working in the nonprofit sector or in, you know, in community building that you automatically shouldn't get paid like you should. Um, but it's just, uh, it's just a, it's a bit more complicated in how you acquire, um, money to run your organization or your business. Our strategy has always been that when we collaborate with companies or foundations or brands, the DJs have to be paid first. So it's like my team, my staff have to be paid. It's a non-negotiable, um, because we're also working, you know, trying to advocate for a more equal industry. Right. So it's like, how can I do that if we don't lead the way, um, by saying what's acceptable and what isn't. So when we do work with, you know, outside brands and companies and foundations, it's my job, you know, as a CEO to make sure that everyone that's within our community, that's part of that project also gets paid.
Nereya: Yeah. So many organizations are community led projects. They exist because they wouldn't exist otherwise. Like, because the way we've structured, the world has been structured as it is. Um, just does it make room for those to flourish, even though everyone is like, of course this is needed. Of course this is necessary. And so I think it's funny when, when I'm having these meetings with people and potential funders or potential partners, um, when my, myself and my colleague Ben are there and then there's suggestions as to like, well, why don't you guys do this whenever they say it I'm always like, but that just makes us exactly like you, like, that's just like, that's just, yeah, that would, of course that would work because it's been working, but that's the whole point is that that's the only way for it to work. And what we're talking about here is trying to make is that there's another way that we, you know, there can be another, another option. And I completely agree with you, Tia. I think we all, there was like a resounding like, sort of like church amen, when you're like, just cause you were in the industry and in community doesn't mean you shouldn't get paid. And the sheer amount of work that it takes as well, that like, you know, you don't really clock out. You're always working on it. You're always thinking about it. Um, but it, it, it creates there's like this tension or this friction, because I don't know how you guys feel, but I know that like once my organization is up and running, I would love it. If there were like 12 copycats, that's great. You know, I would, because I can't serve that many people. And so if there's 12 people that want to be exactly like us and do the same thing, like I don't see that as competition, as long as I can also get paid. But if, if there are copycats, that means there's, you know, there's value in the work. There, there is there's people that need to be served. There are for my purposes, young musicians who are looking for this way in, and an industry that wants to support it. But I think that a lot of times that confuses people when I'm just like, oh yeah. If someone else wanted to start the same thing in like three years, I'd be like thumbs up.
Tia: Absolutely. I mean, I, I totally agree. You know, and like, um, since we started, um, little over four years ago, there's been a lot of other collectives and organizations, um, doing similar work and people always like, oh, but this is just like, this is like future female sounds. I'm like, cool. Yeah, that's great. Um, because we're all working for the same mission, right. So we all want to create, you know, better conditions for female and gender minorities, DJs. I'm like, yeah, let's do it. You know, the it's it's about, you know, um, collaborativeness and, and not about competition. And if we're all working towards the same or the similar goal, then the more the merrier.
Cybille: Yeah. We, you know, it's so funny because, um, for, for us, it's like, please, please let there be more Honeysuckles in different cities and states. So the onus is not all on us, you know? Um, we, we would love, we would love to be able to connect and, and see another similar project popping up in a place like Cleveland or, um, in like Mississippi or something. Cause that just means that the black farmers that we support get more business themselves as well. Um, and so that's the, that's the way that that's our philosophy with it is that like, we want to be able to expand this distribution network of, of black and brown farmers and people that are growing their own and making their own products. Um, they could be, there's a billion types of bread in the supermarket aisle and that doesn't hinder one other bread from being supportive versus another. And so that's, that's the way it should be able to exist with, with food businesses that are minority owned. It should, we shouldn't have to worry about stepping on each other's toes. We should all be working together. Um, but unfortunately, because of the way that the system is set up, um, it's the mentality of a lot of folks that there can only be one and that's not the case.
Nereya: Well, do you think, Cybille, that you guys are gonna move the needle on that one, change the world? This is how we're going to handle it. We ask you about this. You're going to change the world.
Cybille: I think, I think, yes, I think we will change at the very least our world and the world of, of our, our family members, our friends, our peers, our even competitors. Um, we hope, we hope that that someone is so in love with honeysuckle, that they want to replicate it or that they're so envious of honeysuckle that they want to compete against it, because that just means that everyone is shifting their thinking in terms of food, Black food and communities of color and their access to food. Um, so ultimately, yeah, hell yeah.
Nereya: There we go. It's always, you need to have some sort of a four-letter word in there as well. Um, what about you, Tia? You going to change the world?
Tia: Yes. Uh, I think already am, but not by myself or changing it together in the community that we’re, that we’re building and facilitating, um, I was thinking a lot about this question. And I think when I started thinking about the concept of like changing the world, um, which is so, um, which is so vast and complex, I kind of came back to this quote that, that I always come back to when I'm kind of trying to remind myself of why I started this organization. And it's a quote by an author called MK Asante. And he says that the art to this knows that to make an observation is to have an obligation. And the quote sticks with me because I think that if you have the privilege or the possibility of being able to create change, changing the world in whatever field you work, then it's your duty to do so. And I think changing the world starts in our minds, you know? Um, and for me, it's, I, I wanted to create social change through music, through DJing and really leave an impact on the industry by creating alternatives that are inclusive and accessible, but also that opens the door for girls and gender minorities to even pursue DJing as a profession. Um, and so once we see that we can change the world in our own little fields, then it becomes much more attainable. You know, it's not, not changing the entire world, but changing maybe just one person's life. Um, and that's great if you can do so, so yeah.
Nereya: To make an observation is to have an obligation. Was that it? Yeah, that's dope. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that's a fine note to end on thankfully and yeah, I think, uh, I, I would just really want to thank you. Thank you both for spending this time and for letting me call some girlfriends as it were.
Cybille: Thank you so much.
Tia: Thank you.
[interview ends]
Ann: That was so great. Please tell us where listeners can find all of these organizations.
Nereya: You can definitely find Future Female Sounds, which full disclosure I am on the board of, you can follow them on Instagram @FutureFemaleSounds. And then also a featuredfemalesounds.org is their website. Um, and if you're going to book a DJ, you can do that there as well. I love that honeysuckle, um, is the website is honeysuckle P H L.com. And you can also find them on honeysuckle_projects on Instagram. Um, and then for me, our website is risingartists.org.
Ann: Amazing. We're going to link to all of these in the show notes as well, along with your website. Um, thank you so much.
Nereya: And for Rising Artist Foundation, our website is risingartistfoundation.com.
Ann: Amazing. I'll see you on the internet.
Nereya: See you on the internet.
[outro music]
Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet: callyourgirlfriend.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, we're on all your favorite platforms. Subscribe, rate, review, you know the drill. You can call us back. You can leave a voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. Our theme song is by Robyn, original music composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Our logos are by Kenesha Sneed. We're on Instagram and Twitter at @callyrgf. Our producer is Jordan Bailey and this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.