Comfortably Chic
5/8/15 - We discuss our love for Janet Mock and Bruce Jenner, our feelings about feminist selfies, our skepticism about bleached tampons, and more.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Florence + the Machine - Take Care (Drake Cover)
Made in Heights - Forgiveness
Jean Tonique - Near You
TRANSCRIPT: COMFORTABLY CHIC
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman.
Aminatou: This week on our agenda we have a Shine Theory update. Janet Mock was on Super Soul Sunday. We'll be discussing feminist selfies, the Kim Kardashian selfie book, the Bruce Jenner interview, Weight Watchers, Spanx, the Amy Schumer makeup sketch, the Diva Cup of doom and bleached tampons as well as Greek heroism.
[Theme Song]
Aminatou: What's going on with you, Ann?
Ann: I have to tell you about this absurd thing I did today with several ladies we know and love. I went to an outdoor fair/market thing in Topanga Canyon.
Aminatou: Oh my god, I know exactly where you're talking about. I've been dying to go to that.
Ann: Okay, it is a very hash tagged on Tumblr and Instagram event and I have never been somewhere where it's like there was not an explicitly-communicated dress code but everyone dressed in such the exact same style.
Aminatou: Wait, pause. Does that not happen at the Rose Bowl Flea? Because that definitely happens at the Alameda Flea. Everybody's dressed for like Instagram.
Ann: Right, there's a strong subset of Instagram dressers at the Rose Bowl Flea but then you also have like normal humans. And this was an event where there were none of the normal humans from the flea.
Aminatou: Wow.
(1:50)
Ann: Like the guy selling lemonade icees or who's just wearing jeans and sneakers, like those people were nowhere to be found. It was like all of the vendors, all of the babies were wearing baby moccasins and flowing burlap dresses. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Listen, there's nothing I love more than an early-morning shopping event you have to dress up for.
Ann: Let me tell you, I almost bought a sack with straps on it for 70 dollars.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I didn't. I didn't but the light was golden. There was a woman singing a song about pentagrams and like playing a xylophone.
Aminatou: You're really into witchcraft lately. Hmm.
Ann: You know, witchcraft is unavoidable in Los Angeles. This is what the New York Times won't tell you.
Aminatou: Maybe you're just attracting witchcraft, Ann. I don't know.
Ann: Are you saying I'm welcoming it into my life?
Aminatou: I'm just saying you own a lot of capes.
Ann: That's true. Maybe they see themselves in me.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I did see some incredible ceramics. That was a thing I was really tempted to buy today, but our dear friend Kenesha who made our logo makes the best ceramics so I don't need to buy any ever from other people.
Aminatou: I know. She makes the best ceramics. We will link to them on the website, duh.
Ann: Duh. Tactilematter.com. Anyway, so that's what I did today. I also ate a 14 dollar sandwich at this place because there was no reasonably-priced food and it had like a beets smear on it and virtually no toppings for 14 dollars.
Aminatou: Oh my god. Thank you for creating a safe space for me to disclose that recently I had a 20 dollar smoothie.
Ann: Um, there's not . . .
Aminatou: It was not super-sized. It was a normal . . . [Laughs] It was a normal, healthy smoothie and I've been heating myself ever since.
Ann: Did it have like bee pollen in it? I feel like that's a real ingredient that . . .
Aminatou: I mean it had bee pollen. It had all the expensive things except for gold flakes but I feel really shitty about it and I've been really ashamed to talk about it. But thank you for creating that space. 14 dollar sandwich opens that door.
(4:05)
Ann: 14 dollar beet sandwich.
Aminatou: That's disgusting. [Laughs]
Ann: Tell me about your week.
Aminatou: It has been really good, really low-key. I spent the whole day today prepping and cooking because I've become one of those boring people. Also . . .
Ann: Who cooks your meals in advance for the week?
Aminatou: Yeah, I'm just like here are all my meals in advance. Also I realize I've been eating the same thing for the last two weeks because I've been trying to eat local. I was like oh, this is what's going on. Celery acc every day, pea shoots every day. [Laughs]
Ann: Mmm.
Aminatou: And oh, what was the other? What's the other thing that's in season that's boring me right now? Fennel. Oh my god, so much fennel. Ugh.
Ann: I mean there's only so much of those aromatic roots that one woman can handle. [Laughs]
Aminatou: I know, but you know, talk to me about my Ragu game. On-point right now.
Ann: Hmm. Speaking of Goop -- I know you didn't say that -- but Gwyneth endorsed the Spiralizer recently which for those of you at home was a gift from Amina to me not that long ago which allows you to turn vegetables into spirals.
Aminatou: You know, I've been afraid to ask if you've been enjoying your Spiralizer because when I gave it to you I hoped it would usher in many delicious meals in your life. But then I felt a little self-conscious about how too on-the-nose it was.
Ann: Okay, so here's the thing: I've been mostly using it to slice onions super, super thin and then pan-frying them.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: So I can have crispy onion topping on my potatoes and soups. But I understand Gwenny uses it to make zucchini pasta and I will try that.
Aminatou: I was going to tell you the zucchini pasta is the way to go. Also don't call her Gwenny. So dismissive. Please. You know I love Goop.
(5:55)
Ann: I mean you and she have the same taste in like kitchen devices. Of course.
Aminatou: You're only as good as your tastes. Hello? We have good tastes.
Ann: It's true. I'm not hating. I opened the email and clicked on the article about the Spiralizer. I'm admitting this before an audience of hundreds.
Aminatou: So one day we'll discuss Goop in full because I -- yeah, I love Goop.
Ann: Gooptacular, like a special episode.
Aminatou: Yeah, no. OG A++ newsletter.
Ann: Yeah. I'm not complaining about it. I'm just -- you know, relevant. Sorry, I completely interrupted you. What did you do other than cook this weekend?
Aminatou: I feel like I'm avoiding talking about it because I can't remember. [Laughs] I'm just like wait, what did I do that I actually want to talk about? Yeah, you know, I caught up with friends. Good lady friend Martha was in town.
Ann: Ugh, the pride of Detroit, Michigan.
Aminatou: I know, the pride of Detroit. Ugh, she's the most bad-ass lady. Oh, what else did I do? I watched Super Soul Sunday, a.k.a., you know, the best part of Sunday today and I cried many, many times. It was great.
Ann: I mean Janet Mock and Oprah brokered via Twitter? Is that real? Let's talk.
Aminatou: I mean yes. So maybe this is a Shine Theory update that we're starting on.
Ann: Yeah, that's great.
Aminatou: Oprah confirmed on Twitter that she read Janet Mock's book Redefining Realness after talk lady Ashley Ford tweeted about it because Ashley's not a fool and also watches Super Soul Sunday. And yeah, so Janet Mock was on this morning, the most beautiful woman in the world. It was great. We don't really talk about how much I watch Super Soul Sunday because it's . . . [Laughs] You know, I like to keep some mystery.
Ann: Right, something for you. Keep something for yourself.
(7:52)
Aminatou: Yeah, it's like you need a little bit of religion in your life and for me it's Super Soul Sunday or listening to Florence and the Machine. So . . . [Laughs] But yeah, Super Soul Sunday was great today. Janet talked about her book. She talked about her life and her trajectory and, God, she's . . . like I love her show on MSNBC but I've told her many times that I believe it's her starter show. I can't wait until she's running television.
Ann: Yeah, the show is too . . . she needs a sort of topic breadth as wide as Oprah, like Oprah can talk about anything. Janet is a little bit tied to the themes of her show and the subject areas. We need her on everything.
Aminatou: Which the themes are great.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: I just want all of America to know who Janet Mock is because she's great. If you haven't read Redefining Realness you should. If you don't follow Janet on Twitter you should. Basically Janet's the best.
Ann: And also her core question, because I read the key quotes from Super Soul Sunday -- I did not watch today -- but who am I to me? Who am I to me is such a great question.
Aminatou: So real. And yeah, man, I'm going to cry all over again. I hope you find some time to watch it because it was so good. Like sometimes Oprah just gets the perfect interview subject and they complement each other and they just get each other and this was it.
[Music]
Ann: Did you see this feminist selfie thing?
Aminatou: Ann, I'm so annoyed.
Ann: Ugh, please explain this to people who have managed to avoid the hashtag.
(9:52)
Aminatou: So feminists are ugly hashtag is a hashtag I guess that's been happening on Twitter for a while but the way I encountered it was via this BuzzFeed article titled "Feminists are Tweeting Stunning Selfies in Response to the Feminists are Ugly Hashtag." Ugh. So reasons I'm disappointed. There are many anti-feminist stereotypes. The fact that this is one that people feel compelled to dispel is just, ugh, annoying. And also you can't really debunk misogyny by reinforcing aspects of it, you know? [Laughs]
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: A.k.a. beauty ideals. So I don’t know, it's just really annoying when feminists think they have to validate this notion that a woman's appearance is the most important thing about her and so that's annoying. This was not fighting fire with fire. This was fighting fire with not being very smart.
Ann: Right. So basically a bunch of feminists attempted to take back this hashtag by posting selfies that were very flattering or being like "Look how beautiful I am," which is great. I feel like all of these feminist ladies are beautiful. But it's also like okay, there is a laundry list of stuff that anti-feminists have forever used as, I don't know, in a derogatory way to describe feminists.
Aminatou: I know. That you're ugly and not fuckable is the number one ground zero for how you know you're dealing with a misogynist.
Ann: Oh my god, that's why you became a feminist. Right. And so basically being like "No, I'm totally fuckable. You just don't understand." [Laughs] It's like I don't need everyone to be like actually we're ugly and embracing it, like the opposite isn't true either. But you're totally right, it feels like it's playing their game rather than ignoring.
Aminatou: Are you kidding me? If I was an MRA troll this is the best thing I could've ever done. It's like now you have a treasure trove of women's photos.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: Why? Don't do this. Feminists, please don't do this.
(12:00)
Ann: I don't know. For some reason if it were a little bit more knowing, like a feminists are ugly where they're making ugly faces or something where you're at least pointing out how stupid it is to be judging women based on this fact at all rather than just a lot of like "Hey look how pretty we actually are." That doesn't seem like a way of debunking any of this.
Aminatou: Yeah, and this is not to knock selfies. I love a good selfie. I think there's almost nothing wrong with self-objectification. This is just really playing into the hands of people who don't want to do good for you.
Ann: I'm like show me your smiling face and hairy legs and Birkenstocks.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Show me all of these things. Okay, granted that would be difficult to get in one selfie.
Aminatou: I know. I don't know anybody who is doing full-body selfies that's not Kim Kardashian. P.S., I think my book is coming this week and I'm very excited about it. I ordered the Kim K. selfie book, obvi. Signed copy.
Ann: She is so brilliant. Like how brilliant to put out a selfie book? That's just beyond.
Aminatou: She's so good, and some of those pictures were leaked and she was like "Well, you know, fighting fire with fire. I'm going to just put them in the book." They're so good. She was on Jimmy Kimmel two nights ago showing him how to take selfies. Kim can do no wrong. She's like perfect. Love.
Ann: I mean the thing about the full-body selfie is I don't have any appropriate mirrors in my house to really accommodate it. Like you really need a Florida ceiling mirror situation.
Aminatou: Trust me, Ann, it's the next big-ticket shopping item in my life is a Kardashian-style mirror.
Ann: You know like in the '70s when people would do their whole walls in mirror?
Aminatou: Yeah, those people were really smart.
Ann: Like a room. A whole room of her house just mirrored for selfying.
Aminatou: Yeah.
Ann: While we're on the Kardashian subject do you want to talk about Bruce Jenner because we haven't yet? Or not?
Aminatou: I mean sure, I love Bruce. What do you want to talk about? You're the one that doesn't watch the show.
(14:00)
Ann: Dude, I actually did finally go back and watch it.
Aminatou: All of it?
Ann: Well, no, I watched like the highlight reel. I watched the clips. I did not sit and watch the entire interview. Sorry.
Aminatou: Oh, you mean the Bruce Jenner interview.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: I thought we were talking about the show. I was stunned.
Ann: I'm talking about the interview. Current events.
Aminatou: Wait, you didn't watch the whole interview? It's just like an hour and change.
Ann: Listen, I had a busy week.
Aminatou: I'm sorry, I can't believe you're a real journalist trying to talk to me about a thing you haven't watched. Talk to me.
Ann: [Laughs] Behind-the-scenes how real journalism works. If you noticed I asked you about it. I didn't say "Here are all the thoughts I have."
Aminatou: No, I know. That's why I'm turning the tables on you. I'm like I want to know what you think. [Laughs]
Ann: I was curious whether Dianne Sawyer would do the whole asking all the questions we have come to expect of people who are coming out as trans or have come out and her sort of saying "So, what does it feel like to be born in the wrong body?"
Aminatou: Yeah.
Ann: Or things that are not actually relevant to a lot of trans people.
Aminatou: I honestly thought it was an amazing interview. I've heard a lot of people -- I guess people that we're friends with who are more progressive -- be like "Oh, there's a lot of 101 and really elementary stuff there but that's good because the old people need it." And I was like actually everybody needs it. Very few people are really aware of trans issues, like aware to the point where they can do a really informed interview about it. I certainly don't claim to know a lot and I thought that, you know, the interview was cheesy graphics aside, which that's not Diane's fault.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: Like Diane just warned the ABC graphics department so don't try to put that on her. I thought that the interview was constructed perfectly, like taking you through Bruce's journey but also highlighting larger trans issues. I thought she did a great job. Let's not forget it's her first big job since Mike Nichols died so also emotional moment for us Diane fans.
Ann: Really shining. Really shining . . .
(16:05)
Aminatou: Yeah, but I think the interview worked because they were both fully invested. Like I've been watching the Kardashian shows since the beginning and this was really the first time Bruce let his hair down, you know? And it was amazing. There's this part of the interview where he just takes his hair tie out. It's -- I literally screamed at the TV. I was like this is going to be amazing. He's 100% open. They even walk you through the pronouns. He still wants people to refer to him as he/him right now and so it was really annoying to see people on Twitter be like she or they or whatever and I was like no. Watch the dumb interview and see Bruce speak for himself.
Ann: I saw so many articles amended with the GLAAD media guidelines at the top like a couple hours later.
Aminatou: Also Kim and Kanye are the MVPs of that interview. Apparently of all the kids -- of all the Kardashian kids -- Kim is the most accepting and it's because Kanye talked her through it and I was like yes, this is the best. I know, well listen, the most shocking part of the interview is when Bruce admits to being a Republican. Diane almost lost her shit. She was like excuse me, what? Are you a Republican? And I was like that's right Diane. But yesterday I was looking at this dumb Rick Santorum interview where somebody was trying to trap him into saying something transphobic and he goes "If he says he's a woman, he's a woman." And I was like what? Coming from Rick Santorum?
Ann: That's amazing. That is amazing. What has Rick Santorum been doing lately?
(17:48)
Aminatou: I don't know, like just . . . I always in my head confuse him and the small fat one, what's his name? The one that's on Fox News that's so ridiculous. Not Karl Rove.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: The one that lost all the week. Huckabee. Mike Huckabee. Like in my head they're the same person because they always say the most ridiculous things.
Ann: Oh yeah.
Aminatou: And then I see pictures of them and I'm like oh, Rick Santorum looks like such an asshole.
Ann: Right, but Huckabee is sort of like -- or was for a long time -- Santorum lite. Like I feel like this is encouraging. I don't know. Maybe I should be excited about Rick Santorum just not being an asshole.
Aminatou: It was encouraging to me in the sense where it's like, you know, even Republicans know -- to quote a very famous college slogan -- they're like roll tide. The change is coming.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: So yeah, there was nothing they could do about it. It was really great. I cried a lot during the Bruce interview. I watched it with our top lady Leslie Claitin who was very emotional.
Ann: Cool.
[Music]
Aminatou: I kind of want to talk about this obituary. Did you read the obituary?
Ann: UPS are the best curators of obituaries of anyone I know. Like so good at finding a good . . .
Aminatou: High compliment. If somebody wants to start an obituary vertical please call me because I do, I uncover the best obits. So this is the obit for, god, I wrote down how to say her name right. Oh, Jean Nidetch who is the woman who created Weight Watchers. Ann, this is in the New York Times. So she's 91, just died. The picture that they used to illustrate the obituary is amazing.
(20:13)
Ann: I'm staring at it right now and she is wearing the silkiest blouse. She has the biggest hair. Her glasses are like, you know, mid-2000s hipster glasses but like OG '80s.
Aminatou: Yeah, her watch, bling, the nail polish. She's . . .
Ann: And she's eating the world's biggest slice of cake.
Aminatou: I know, like 17 points on the Weight Watchers scale. [Laughs] But, you know, Weight Watchers is a little emotional for me because a lot of women in my life have done Weight Watchers and there's something very just comforting about it. It reminds me of my mom and all of my aunts and just this time where you talk through losing weight with your friends basically. There's something very sentimental about it. But this obituary is amazing, like this lady is great. I can't believe I knew nothing about her.
Ann: And I also feel like she's part of a complicated tradition of women who become seriously important business ladies based on selling stuff that is maybe a little not awesome. Like, you know, applying a points system to your body or Spanx or . . .
Aminatou: Well, but here's the thing that the obituary makes clear: that's new Weight Watchers and she had nothing to do with that. Like in the '70s when she was doing her crazy revival and like -- they had like a revival in the middle of Madison Square Garden which is amazing, and her whole message is like "Overeating is an emotional problem with an emotional solution, so that's what the groups are for." And she . . .
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: That was the whole thing, and it wasn't until new owners come and all of this stuff comes in. You know, like Weight Watchers is very problematic now because they're just trying to sell you packaged foods.
(22:00)
Ann: So she never was into points?
Aminatou: I mean she was definitely a compulsive eater. The article said she tried every pill. There's a bit in here about hypnosis that I'm just like god, I really wish I had lived through the '60s. It just reminds me of Betty Draper putting that -- like when she goes through her fat phase on Mad Men. It's pretty amazing. But the whole point of the show -- not show, but program -- is to go in and meet other women and talk to them, right? And having this balanced diet. So it was very emotional, and it's not until the new owners kick in. The point system at Weight Watchers is very recent.
Ann: Okay.
Aminatou: And that was not her doing.
Ann: I guess in my lifetime it's something I've always associated with Weight Watchers and having a -- this is so real, like having a basic understanding of what Weight Watchers points means, you grew up a woman. I feel like you can't grow up and not have a basic conversational ability in what Weight Watchers means, or when somebody says "I'm doing Weight Watchers" you just know.
Aminatou: I used to work with a woman who was obsessed with doing Weight Watchers before her wedding but obviously was not doing it right because she would save all of her points to drink wine and get completely sloshed. [Laughs] And I'm like well, this is maybe not the best way.
Ann: And I'm going to refill my glass to that. [Fills glass] [Laughs]
Aminatou: Oh, that's perfect. I'm drinking whiskey. [Laughs]
Ann: Great. I just spilled it all over my lap and I'm wearing light denim. Oops.
Aminatou: Yeah, I just . . . you know, this made me really nostalgic for this era of really savvy business women, I guess like '50s, '60s, '70s. I feel the same way about Lily Pulitzer, kind of misunderstood, kind of did problematic things, and we just completely forget about them.
(23:58)
Ann: I mean Target has not forgotten about Lily Pulitzer.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Cold-blooded. Cold-blooded. Lily Pulitzer is a great lady too though. The whole reason she made those clothes is because she's like "I'm a South Florida mom. You need something you can spill orange juice on" and blah, blah, blah. And somehow the clothes have become a symbol for people who are assholes.
Ann: So is the real lesson . . .
Aminatou: That was not Lily's original intent.
Ann: So is the real lesson for women entrepreneurs you just can never sell out because they will pervert whatever your product was and use it for like . . .
Aminatou: I mean that's like for everybody's business but I think that for rad lady businesses it just makes you sadder.
[Ads]
(27:28)
Ann: Oh my god, actually did you send me a note about this? Or maybe it's somewhere in our incredibly messy agenda about Spanx trying to change its . . .
Aminatou: Oh, it was me. I removed it for the agenda, how Spanx is trying to . . . [Laughs]
Ann: Trying to re-brand?
Aminatou: They had to change the recipe. Yes.
Ann: That article had this incredible quote where they were like "Compression is so last-decade" or something like that.
Aminatou: I know, which kind of sounds insane because I don't know, another confession, I've been really into athleisure lately so . . .
(28:03)
Ann: I feel like you've talked about athleisure on the podcast several times.
Aminatou: I'm spending a lot of times in Nike stores buying pants especially and I feel that compression is everywhere. And you know I was a pioneer of legging as pants.
Ann: I know.
Aminatou: And I have noticed that even with just the regular leggings I buy everything is compression-wear these days.
Ann: I just had a revelation that leggings were the Spiralizer in our relationship of five years ago where you were like "Ann, get onboard with leggings" and I was like "I don't really get it" and now of course I'm devoted. Five years from now I'm going to be like "I can't live without my Spiralizer." [Laughs]
Aminatou: It's just because my life is the perfect balance of comfort and chicness. [Laughs] That's what's going on.
Ann: You can't help it.
Aminatou: I know, that's like my Venn diagram. It's like comfortably chic.
Ann: And I feel like now you have a tagline for a line of semi compression leggings.
Aminatou: [Laughs] If they do like compression caftans.
Ann: Oh my god, I saw so many caftans. today, P.S., of all varieties. Almost bought a denim one.
Aminatou: Oh no, caftan is a good uniform for Instagram events. [Laughs]
Ann: Oh my god, yeah. I'm going to find the hashtag and see. There was no one in compression-wear. I was wearing my Thelma and Louise jeans and I was the most compressed person there.
Aminatou: That's reckless.
Ann: [Laughs] I was very out of step.
[Music]
Aminatou: Ann, have you seen the Amy Schumer girl you don't need makeup sketch?
Ann: Ugh, I have not. I got around to watching the last fuckable day sketch like three months late so no, I have not.
(30:15)
S: So full disclosure I am not 100% sold on Amy Schumer. Everybody -- literally every day of my life someone sends me an Amy Schumer thing and it's like "You will love her" and I'm like hmm, I don't know. And also I hate sketch comedy but that's not her fault. That's nobody's fault. That's my own problem I'm dealing with. [Laughs] But this season has been really interesting of the Amy Schumer show. I watched this girl, you don't need makeup sketch the other day and it's the first thing that genuinely made me laugh. It pokes fun at this One Direction song What Makes You Beautiful. If you haven't seen that video you should probably watch that video first just so you have a good frame of reference. [Laughs] And if you haven't seen the video sometimes I don't understand how we're friends but . . .
Ann: I actually have seen the video.
Aminatou: Ugh, okay.
Ann: We can remain friends.
Aminatou: Everything is good in the world. [Laughs] That's a Game of Thrones reference for you.
Ann: I didn't get that.
Aminatou: [Laughs] That's crazy. But so anyway in the sketch she's dancing around with this fictional boy band and they're singing about how she doesn't need makeup to be beautiful and then she removes her makeup and they change their mind and they ask her to put a lot of makeup back on. And it's kind of amazing. Obviously you know how in this family we feel about that Drake lyric. [Laughs]
Ann: I was just about to say this is exactly like Drake claiming he loves you more in your sweatpants.
Aminatou: Yeah, it's like what is it? Hair down, something . . . what is it? Oh, sweatpants, hair tie, chilling with no makeup on.
Ann: Yeah. [Laughs]
(32:00)
Aminatou: Yes. That was like the thing that truly endeared me to Drake because I was like oh, you don't know how much contouring it actually takes to make these girls that you like look natural.
Ann: Do you think that Drake has ever seen a woman without makeup? He was a child star. I think it's possible.
Aminatou: Yeah, but I don't think he knows the difference, you know what I mean? Just Drake thinks there are beautiful women and not-beautiful women and it's like when he sees a no-makeup selfie he doesn't understand what's going on.
Ann: Right. He's like does not compute.
Aminatou: Yeah, he's just like did you just wake up? [Laughs]
Ann: Totally. "You look really tired today." That's my favorite male comment about women who aren't wearing makeup.
Aminatou: "You look really tired."
Ann: "Are you getting sick?"
Aminatou: Yeah, it's my whole life. My whole life is one big no-makeup selfie. Get it together. Or like the all-natural makeup movement which I don't understand. This video, it's amazing. It's pretty funny. I kind of sort of want to make you watch it.
[Music]
(33:39)
Aminatou: And even all those studies show if you want to be taken seriously at work you've got to put a little bit of makeup on. [Laughs] Everybody knows that. But I thought it was really cleverly done and it's really good about poking fun at people who don't understand the natural/unnatural spectrum of the situation.
Ann: Right. People who don't understand that Beyonce didn't actually wake up like this; it's just a turn of phrase.
Aminatou: I know. But I kind of respect Beyonce a little bit more than all the assholes in my life who are like "Have you heard of the no makeup makeup trend?" And I'm like just die in a fire.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: Those are not real things. Wear makeup and own it. Don't wear makeup and own it. It's not that big of a deal. Thank you Amy Schumer.
Ann: [Laughs] Ugh, let's talk about periods.
Aminatou: Oh my god, tell me, are you on a period?
Ann: I'm not. I'm like, you know, you'd think it would've started in the Luna tent of Topanga canyon today or whatever.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: But no.
Aminatou: You're going to wake up tomorrow just connected to the hundreds of women that were there.
Ann: I know. My cotton pony is stored underneath the bathroom sink. I'm good.
Aminatou: Oh my god.
Ann: Oh my god, do you want to read this terrifying email we got about he Diva Cup?
Aminatou: Oh yeah. So here's the thing, I am also not on a period so I haven't tried the Diva Cup but I am hearing all you Divas loud and clear. I need a name for Diva Cup aficionados. I'm just going to call them Divas. [Laughs] But I have received some very troubling mail also about Diva Cups. This is from Sophie all the way from Australia -- hi Sophie -- or maybe Sophie doesn't want us to say her name. [Laughs] This is from a really cool listener . . .
Ann: There are a lot of Sophies in Australia. It's probably fine.
Aminatou: I know, but I'm just like -- but you know she's probably told this story to at least one person.
Ann: That's true.
Aminatou: So anyway, here is this email. "I had a vagina-crushing experience on my first Diva Cup period." Vagina-crushing, Ann.
Ann: Ugh.
(35:55)
Aminatou: "What the leaflet failed to emphasize, I purchased mine through a Groupon and the company literature had illustrated instructions sans writing reminiscent of IKEA instructions." Sophie, let's talk about Groupon for two seconds.
Ann: Let's not.
Aminatou: Don't be buying things that go in your body on Groupon.
Ann: Never. Never on discount. Nothing that goes in your vagina should ever be purchased just because it was on a discount.
Aminatou: That's amazing. "What the leaflet failed to emphasize is you have to break the seal upon removal. This means before you pull the cup out you have to run your fingers around the rim of the cup while it's still inside you."
Ann: What?
Aminatou: "I was ignorant of this. The literature inside indicated nothing of the sort, and as a cup-shaped receptacle in a vagina canal wants to do while being removed a suction effect was created."
Ann: I'm dying. I'm covering my eyes with my hand as if I can actually see this in front of me.
Aminatou: "I am not even killing, it was worse than any hymen breaking/STI/Frida Kahlo accident." No! "I actually cried. After my labia were so bruised, torn, and inflamed that a week later my doctor falsely diagnosed a herpes outbreak. Let the record show I don't have herpes." You go, girl! "In short, trauma. Veritable trauma."
Ann: Oh my god.
Aminatou: Oh. My.
Ann: This is like a Cosmopolitan It Happened to Me, or is it like Seventeen? From like the '90s.
Aminatou: I know. So listen, this is the second email I've gotten about this. Yeah, so now I'm just looking at this unopened Diva Cup and I'm definitely considering returning it to Amazon, not Groupon.
Ann: Did you look at the literature? Is she right that it doesn't say anything about breaking the seal?
(37:48)
Aminatou: I'm not going to open it in case I return it. [Laughs] So I haven't opened it yet.
Ann: They'll still take it back. They won't be like "It looks like this Diva Cup has been inside you."
Aminatou: Oh, you're right. So maybe I should look at it.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: Listen, I'm on the website right now, divacup.com/howitworks/howitworks/ . . . [Laughs]
Ann: Just eight more slashes of how it works.
Aminatou: So they tell you how to fold. They tell you how to push down. There is nothing here about running your hand on the rim, but I guess if you folded it . . . yeah, I'm not playing this game. Sorry.
Ann: Oof.
Aminatou: I'm already over it. [Laughs]
Ann: Is that the last and final Diva Cupdate? The nail in the Diva Cup coffin?
Aminatou: [Laughs] This is the nail in the Diva Cup closet. Oh, this is really rad lady Sophie who wrote us who sent in an FAQ for Diva Cup.
Ann: Oh.
Aminatou: I feel like we should post this on the website just because -- because it's so good. What's the best way to clean your cup? What makes it the best? How do you clean between periods? How do you store it? Does it leak? Here's the answer to does it leak? "If it's in right it should not leak, but you know sometimes you're in a weird position. It will leak a little." Hmm.
Ann: Hmm.
Aminatou: "And that's just the reality of periods." No, that should not be the reality of periods Sophie. "That happens with tampons too, right? For one unfortunate story about a Diva Cup leak listen to this episode of Talk Shame." I will send you the link to the Top Shame thing because it was really funny. [Laughs]
Ann: Okay, I can't wait.
Aminatou: Yeah, I . . . yeah, so this will be the final Diva Cupdate. No thank you.
Ann: Okay. In other news about things I actually do put in my vagina did you see this bill that Representative Carolyn Maloney has reintroduced for the tenth time about disclosing what materials go into tampons?
Aminatou: Yes. Yes. Ugh, tell us about it.
Ann: I mean it's not so much that the companies who make this stuff don't really want to disclose all of the product safety information. That doesn't shock me because they're all major companies and whatever. But what does shock me is she's been reintroducing this bill ten times. Here's the thing: if there was sort of a very easy-to-find all-natural fibers, no bleach, OB-quality tampon I would buy it and I do buy the, whatever, Seventh Generation ones when I find them. But the truth is sometimes you need a tampon and you're only near a Rite-Aid and you just take what you can get.
(40:25)
Aminatou: No, it's true. Well, also once upon a time -- I'm afraid to Google it because I don't even want to pull up the results but I read about how there is some mold on some tampons.
Ann: Ugh, yeah.
Aminatou: And it's like inevitable.
Ann: Yeah, this article quotes a microbiologist at NYU who was like there are a lot of leachables is the word that come from fibers and they leach out chemicals. Even if they're organic they can release chemicals and clog your liver. And it seems like on one hand I'm like this is a big deal. This is stuff that is inside your body and we don't know all the chemicals in it. But then on the other hand I'm like I brush my teeth with Crest and it's bright blue and that's probably not good for me either and I am constantly injecting chemicals.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I know it's wrong. I know I should probably be all-natural everything, wow, and we're back to Topanga so fast. But I don't know. I mean it's upsetting when I sit and read about it but it's very hard in my day-to-day life to feel super upset every time I put in a tampon that appears bleached. This is just the reality.
Aminatou: I mean I don't feel . . . I don't know. It's a huge leap for me from this to all-natural because you know how I feel about woo-woo science, like no. But the thing about it that was really crazy when I was reading this is realizing there are just some things you put in your body so much that you just don't even question where they come from, you know? And I realized that this is what was going on here and it made me really angry.
Ann: Yeah, right.
(42:00)
Aminatou: Also the average woman will use over 16,800 tampons and sanitary pads in her life. This is the average woman.
Ann: Wow. Wow.
Aminatou: So for the heavy bleeders just think about it.
Ann: I mean . . .
Aminatou: Ugh. Ugh. You see, this is the kind of shit that makes me want to try Diva Cup and then, you know, uteran prolapse. I don't know, Ann, you really . . .
Ann: I didn't intend that to be a counterpoint, I'll be honest. [Laughs]
Aminatou: You've got to pick what's best for . . .
Ann: But it did kind of come out that way didn't it?
Aminatou: I mean I think the counterpoint is to not have periods at all.
Ann: I thought you were going to say to not have a uterus, which same thing probably, right?
Aminatou: I mean, yeah, same things. There are other ways to not have periods.
Ann: Sure.
Aminatou: Shout-out to all my ladies who skip the placebo pill. [Laughs]
Ann: Yeah, it's true. A strong, proud group there.
Aminatou: Yeah, I'm like please. I don't need to see this.
Ann: The never-bleeds, like never-nudes but . . .
Aminatou: The never-bleeds. Listen, that's the club I try to be in all the time. Every once in a while you have accidents, but you know . . . this is crazy. Okay, ugh, talk about another thing that's going to keep me awake at night.
[Music]
Aminatou: I wanted to read to you really quickly this funny thing that happened in Greece because I'm a bad person.
Ann: I don't know why you're a bad person but I can't wait to hear.
Aminatou: Well you know how I love political spouses? They're my favorite. So this thing happened in Greece. Really quick primer, Greece is basically the Detroit of Europe. Like you can send somebody a PayPal for ten years and buy a house at this point. They have no money. They have so much debt. It's crazy.
(44:00)
Ann: Are they also doing a program where writers can get a house for free if they move to Greece?
Aminatou: Yeah, for like one Euro you can get a house as a writer in Greece. You can buy the Parthenon at this point. So the Greek finance minister is this guy Yanis Varoufakis who I've been kind of obsessed with because the news is always making him into this popular guy, like he wears jeans. He wore this . . . he basically wore a hoodie to some really important meeting. He flies coach because his country has no money so he's like we can't be living like we have too much money. But anyway . . . [Laughs] Greece is falling apart. That's all you need to know. I feel like Wendy Davis giving you a political update.
Ann: I love this. I'm loving it.
Aminatou: It's ridiculous. So he was hanging out with his wife at dinner. His wife is this really famous Greek artist who does these great light installations. That's actually how I found the article was because of her, not through him -- sorry Yanis. They were having dinner and these anarchists basically tried to beat him up, or I don't know what they do in countries with anarchists, who knows? So wife Danae like totally saved his life. From the article, I quote, "Before I could stop her and before the anarchists reached us Danae rose and wrapped her arms around me, turning her back to them so they would've hit her before they got me." And I was like what? This is insane. Way to go lady. Second of all not all superheroes wear capes apparently. And she just like -- this reminds me of the Wendi Deng story when somebody -- Wendi Deng, wife of what's his name, Rupert Murdoch?
Ann: Rupert Murdoch.
Aminatou: I always called him Richard Murdoch which is a very sexy name.
Ann: Definitely sexier than Rupert.
Aminatou: You know, like when somebody hit her husband with was it pie or something, I don't remember, she slapped . . . she like slapped that person.
Ann: Yeah, it was like a cream pie.
(46:04)
Aminatou: And I was like god, these political spouses. This is too much. It's too much.
Ann: I also love it as a counter-narrative to the we must protect women and children kind of thing.
Aminatou: I know. She's like we must protect the finance minister at all . . . [Laughs]
Ann: We must protect the weak finance minister.
Aminatou: It's so crazy. So Yanis routinely looks like a thug so the fact that his wife had to protect him is my favorite thing in the world. Well-played Danae, wife of Yanis.
Ann: I know. Also, okay, just Google Imaged Yanis and he has a little bit of an action villain vibe about him. I don't just say that because he's bald.
Aminatou: I love that you're calling him an action villain and I'm like he's a thug. Let me show you this picture in London where he was wearing this ridiculous jacket.
Ann: I love that. Maybe the rest of the podcast is just us Google Imaging things and talking to each other about it. [Laughs]
Aminatou: No, he has this leather jacket that he always -- whenever he wears it I'm like who did you come to rob? Just Google Yanis leather jacket.
Ann: Oh my god, I see it. I see it. Is he wearing it over a blazer?
Aminatou: You know it. This is so practical. I love how he doesn't care. He's just like here's my chunky boots, here's my leather jacket. I don't have time for this.
Ann: He's in London. The caption is Downing Street Catwalk.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Ugh, love it. I love a Marxist in a good leather trench coat.
Ann: Ugh, so good.
Aminatou: Okay, well I feel like we have hit the low and the lowest. It might be time to pack it in.
Ann: I mean it's been -- I've just been sitting here letting wine slowly dry on my lap where I spilled it like 20 minutes ago so that's where we're at over here.
Aminatou: Okay, Ann. People can find us many places on the Internet, on our website callyourgirlfriend.com, on Twitter at @callyrgf. You can write us at Gmail.
Ann: Callyrgf@gmail.com or iTunes.
Aminatou: Exactly.
Ann: Where you should like us and leave us a nice review because . . .
Aminatou: Because we like nice reviews. And yeah, see you on the Internet boo.
Ann: See you on the Internet.