Love in Color
4/15/21 - We're easing our way back from our break with Bolu Babalola, author of the delightful collection of romantic stories that center Black women, Love in Color.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Executive Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Composer: Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.
Producer: Jordan Bailey
Visual Creative Director: Kenesha Sneed
Merch Director: Caroline Knowles
Editorial Assistant: Mercedes Gonzales-Bazan
Design Assistant: Brijae Morris
Ad sales: Midroll
LINKS
Bolu’s favorite Black romcoms:
Brown Sugar
Two Can Play That Game
Love Jones
Anything with Gabrielle Union
[Ads]
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend
Ann: A podcast for long distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: I am Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman.
Aminatou: On this week's agenda, we're easing our way back with books that we love. I was dying to talk to Bolu Babalola about her new book Love In Color.
[theme song]
[interview begins]
Bolu: My name is Bolu Babalola and I am the author of Love in Color.
Aminatou: Hi Bolu. It's nice to talk to you.
Bolu: Hi, how are you?
Aminatou: I am doing great. It's cold in New York but the sun is out and my entire personality depends on how the sun is, so I’m great today.
Bolu: I mean, yeah exactly the same which is why I'm in Lagos and have been since December. I came just before lockdown in the UK. And I was like I'm just not going to go back. My, my seasonal depression has lifted. I am not going to be bad. I'm not going to go back to the spring
Aminatou: I'm so jealous you're in Lagos. Please eat something delicious. And do, do all of the West African activities for me.
Bolu: I will do it for you. [laughter]
Aminatou: Every time I look at Instagram, I have to put my phone down because I'm happy for you. But I get a little upset. You know what I'm saying?
Bolu: I know, I totally get it. But I will have some pounded yam for you for lunch today.
Aminatou: Well done and done and done. And also Bolu congrats on the publication of your book Love In Color, that is now also out in America. The book is an anthology that features all these, you know, stories of self love, love at first sight. And it's you know, like very black stories. And the thing I love about it is that, you know, in this anthology, you are flipping all of the stereotypes and patriarchal structures that usually come with the fairytale and romance and romance genre. And, you know, and obviously that was a very deliberate choice because you are, you are someone who is, you know, I think it's fair to call you a romcom connoisseur.
Bolu: [laughter] Yeah.
Aminatou: And you know, and I think that you do that was such a joy, but also are you're very skeptical, obviously of the romance trope. And so I am just like really curious about your process when you, when you like set out to write this anthology.
Bolu: Thank you. So I really wanted it to be kind of an homage to like romance as a genre, romcoms in general as a genre. But I also just wanted to avoid all the things that irritated me as somebody who's a veteran of the genre, because, you know, there's so many critiques from people who don't respect the power of romance and the power of rom coms, but I do but I also wanted to do my best to critique and kind of distort our expectations. So that was very deliberate of me. So when I was going through the original stories like Siya’s story for example, which is a story about, you know, a woman who leads an army to save her people. That original story was, and her love interest is her kind of special adviser a second in command. The original story was, Siya was literally a damsel, well described as a virgin, of course, damsel in distress. And Maadi was like the brave soldier who was meant to save her from being sacrificed. There was so much in that story about sacrifice and love of people. And I was like, I don't want to lose that, but I do want to like, reimagine what that can look like in a world where men and women are equal. And so yeah, it was very--
Aminatou: Imagine that. Imagine that. [laughter]
Bolu: Yeah, imagine that! So beyond anything, so yeah, it was actually just like an exercising kind of paying homage to the roots and the themes of original stories, but also just updating them just a little bit to make them what I think should be realistic expectations of romance and love.
Aminatou: It's interesting when when you were starting your previous question, you were talking about the people who don't respect the power of romance and rom coms. And I'm just wondering, like, what is the power of romance and rom com? [laughter] Tell me more, tell me more.
Bolu: Okay, so I can only speak for me, and also kind of what resonates with people when I speak about my love of rom coms. Because I feel like when I speak about rom coms, people are like, Oh my god, this is what I've been trying to articulate to people who put it down. And for me, it's like… obviously, hope and joy, but also just how like, beautiful the, the feeling of connecting with somebody is. And that feeling of being seen, I think is so special, because we all want to be seen, I think romance is such a lovely prism for that to be expressed and, and shown and it shows the vulnerability of humans, the strength of humans, and how like embarrassing it can all be. And it's, I think, it shows the beauty of us as humans and our connections.
Aminatou: You know, so many stories in this genre specifically focus so much on when they're about black people and when they're about black couples, a lot of it focuses on suffering and adversity and why it's a trope, that like usually, for me, I'm like, I am turned off like you don't need to suffer all the time. Thank you.
Bolu: Exactly.
Aminatou: But you know, but it's definitely something that you made a really conscious choice to sidestep. And so I, you know, I would love to hear you talk more about that, like what was so important about changing that narrative.
Bolu: I think for me, it was, it was almost like a very natural choice. Because in the kind of things that I personally am drawn to, and kind of media that I seek. I seek happy endings, and things that are positive and things that make me feel good, I like finishing a book, or finishing watching a movie, and going out into the world with a renewed sense of hope, and a reified sense of joy, or that the idea that joy can be found. And so, that was something that I wanted to write in that I wanted to create in my work. With Love In Color, the characters, obviously, black women. And when we see black women in particular, in media, it's not, they're not showing that our many dimensions, just like we're very super, super strong, hyper strong, and built for suffering. We're not allowed tenderness. We're not allowed softness, we're not allowed vulnerability. And we're not allowed love. And we're not allowed to be empowered by our desire, you know, we're victims of our desire, or were hyper-sexualized. And for me, it wasn't so much about combating that because obviously, that is all fallacy. It was just about writing us as how we are and how we exist anyway. So it wasn't about like, you know, fighting racist tropes, it was just about just showing us as we are and how we exist and how we live through the world and how we navigate the world naturally.
Aminatou: Hearing you talk about it. It's obviously so it's such a like, duh, like, so simple moment, right? Like we are, yeah, well, who doesn't want to be seen, who doesn't want to be loved? Who doesn't like, who doesn't want all of these things? And then, and then you look at just hundreds of, you know, like, hundreds of years of writing that tell you otherwise, you know, and so much of that has to do with the gatekeeping. And who stories are allowed to be told and who you know, like, who is doing the storytelling and all of that. And so there's something cathartic for me about hearing you say that because it does sound really simple. And at the same time, I know how much of a battle it is, for these kinds of stories to even be allowed to exist.
Bolu: Exactly like just just allowed it and it's like, if the media is not portraying that, who are they saying deserves love and who are they saying is, deserves romance you know. It's it's really an insidious thing that's very deliberate. And what's insidious about it is that they make it seem like it's natural, like it's normal, like the face of very much should be, you know, a skinny white blonde lady.
Aminatou: To be fair, skinny, white blonde women are some of my best friends. [laughter]
Bolu: I mean yeah same, the editor for Love In Color was a skinny white blonde lady actually. Love you, Katie.
Aminatou: Totally, but Jenny Han was on the show a couple of like weeks ago, and it's something that she has also spoken out about, you know, this, this notion that, you know, like we grew up as people who are not white, experiencing mostly white media. But we, we learned about romance and we learned about friendship, and we, you know, like, we took the key takeaways away from that. And so the idea that an all white audience cannot see people who are not white and also understand that it's a love story or that it's... I just, I find that very reductive and also very ridiculous, you know…
Bolu: Exactly.
Aminatou: This is a, it's just, it's very insulting to everyone involved in this equation.
Bolu: So insulting. I mean, my favorite rom com is like When Harry Met Sally, which is, I mean, Meg Ryan is a skinny white blonde lady. And it's one of my favorite movies. And I love it so much. And it's about love is a universal thing. And, and so, but again, we only see one time a person receiving it in the romantic context and media normally, I mean, mainstream media. So what is it really saying about who deserves that, you know.
Aminatou: Oh, man, I just rewatched that actually with, with a younger person in my life who had never seen it before. And their commentary was so good about it, because they were like, I'm sorry. In what world does a Harry get a Sally? Like are you kidding me?
Bolu: I know it’s so ridiculous.
Aminatou: I was like, you know, I'm glad that the kids are not conditioned the way that we are.
Bolu: I know!
Aminatou: Understanding the scam of this movie from the jump, I am scarred from this movie.
Bolu: It’s so... and it's like, I don't even like Harry really that much. But I don't know why I love that movie. I think it's because it's friendship and I'm a sucker for a friendship based romance, it’s why I like, well the Black version really When Harry Met Sally, Brown Sugar so much because apart from the fact that it's just based on music, but it's just about friendship. And really, I feel like, that's where the heart of romance lies, you know?
Bolu: I mean, that's interesting that you say that because I agree with you that all of my, the rom coms I like are the ones that have, you know, friendship as the contour or like, okay, these people are, it's like, What's that? It's whatever that quote is that's like, love it's friendship on fire.
Bolu: Friendship on fire, yeah yeah. [laughter]
Aminatou: Yeah, I'm like, no, no, no, I'm like, a friendship is the you know what I mean, I'm like, it's the opposite, actually.
Bolu: Yeah, it's the core of it, yeah.
Aminatou: It's a friendship. Thank you. Yeah. It's interesting. I was like, those are all the rom coms that I like, and they're the ones that I'll always forgive, you know, because I'm like, okay, there's a basis for friendship here. But so much, I think of this genre, and specifically, like romance, not the rom com, so much of it sometimes omits friendship...
Bolu: Exactly.
Aminatou: You know, where it's all about, you know, and that's why I think it's hard for me where I was like, Okay, this is all about, like, one person has to submit to someone else. And it falls along these lines, very gendered heterosexual, also, like very boring lines. I was like, do you know that sometimes people are not even heterosexual. That's wild.
Bolu: [laughter] Imagine that.
Aminatou: It's, it's just, it makes me sad, I think in a modern context, because our, our lives are so much bigger than that, you know, and I also think that it creates this societal pressure. That is, it's so unrealistic, and it's actually sad. And so it's why I love when you talk about friendship in this context. Because I, you know, I was like, that is a solid basis for a relationship for most people, you know, whether romantically or sexually involved or not, I was like, friendships are good. Like, that's a good tether to have with someone. And it allows for kind of, like an entanglement that can be productive.
Bolu: Exactly. You want something that makes sense, which is why when I was writing about my characters, I would create my main girl and be like, which partner would embrace her and elevate? And how would they interact with each other? How would they make each other better? How would they challenge each other? And also, do they like each other? Like, I made it clear to be like, Oh, the reason why they like to have like clear because sometimes you watch couples or you read couples, you're like, I don't really get the connection apart from like, the physical attraction like what else? What do they like about each other? And so I really made it, I really wanted to make my characters partners, so you could and also I wanted to make, I wanted to make romance kind of something that maybe accentuates the woman's life. But isn't the life, like she has a whole thing going on. And romance is just like something that she actively chooses rather than something that's like necessary for her. One of the most--
Aminatou: I do appreciate that, about the worlds that you build that women have… they have jobs, but also other lives. You know, they're just other friends and the friends don't just show up to give advice one time and disappear. And that's the thing I think that rom coms got wrong all the time where…
Bolu: Yes.
Aminatou: Someone only ever calls on their friends because they have a crisis. There's never an actual hang. And I was like, okay, like, I like that someone is challenging this because that drives me up the wall.
Bolu: My friends are like the biggest romantic relationship in my life. Like, you know, you talk to these people all the time, talking to like one of our shared best friend Cam, Camilla.
Aminatou: Our queen truly.
Bolu: There was one day we had been tweeting each other and then also texting each other at the same time and like, like, just this is such a magic and friendships and romance in friendship in itself that it's it's wild to me that people think they can create, like real believable romance without having that, as at its core. And for me one of the most, and also I didn't want to write romance as much as this is a book about love, I didn't want it to be very much for romances sake. I wanted these women to choose it and desire it. And one of the most gratifying comments I've ever received about the book was from like, I think she was like, 15, I've been doing a lot of like school zoom talks, and she was 15. And she was, she said, that what this book taught me is that like, I don't need to have romance for the sake of romance. Romance needs to serve me. And that really meant a lot to me because as much as I am a romantic, I'm not a romantic for the sake of romantic, of sake of being a romantic, you know, I call myself a pragmatic romantic, like, I'm not somebody who just does, like wants to go into relationship for the sake of having somebody there, you know. It has to be, has to serve me, so yeah, that meant a lot to me really.
Aminatou: Yeah, I love pragmatic romantic in opposition to the hopeless romantic, because something I think that's really tough to negotiate in, in modern society, at least or in, you know, in the modern, like, feminist society that you and I are trying to live in. There is this idea that if you talk about dating, or you talk about romance, that somehow you know, you're a traditionalist, or you are, you know, you're like, you're not a modern woman, I guess. And that, you know, like, your romantic life has to be in opposition with your, the ambition that you have for other, you know, like success in your life, right? Where you're like, Okay, I want to have success in my friendships, I want to be successful at work and all of that stuff. And so it's why I appreciate the pragmatic romantic, you know, because you are saying, like, I would like this, for this to also be an area of life that serves me, but it is not, it's not the area of life that reigns supreme in my life.
Bolu: Yeah, exactly. And it's not like, you know, the romantic relationship isn't the prize, I think, in obviously, in a lot of the original stories marriage was the goal, I think, in my book, one actively rejected proposal and one is like, the guy said, part of his declaration of love, he promises that he will never propose to her because he knows that not what she wants. And that was really important to me, for like romance to not just be the stuff, the substance of their life, although, obviously, romance and marriage are not necessarily synonymous. But yeah, that's something that I wanted to dispel.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know, it's I'm thinking also about other areas that you have really, really challenged me or like made me think differently about because you always joke about bride, bride prices and dowries. We’re both, you know, like, we're both West African. So it's a, it's a joke, or for me, it cuts too close. I'm like, No, no, my grandmother's were literally married off. And I, you know, I'm like, that's that that's the kind of people that I come from. So, you know, like, shout out to my parents for breaking that generational hold. But you never know, when you'll be dragged back into the, into the dark ages. But I think I had always internalized, you know, like, that conversation being so much about sexism and upholding patriarchy. And in some ways, it really is, you know, I was like, that is that like, that is undeniable. But I think that's something that you had really, your writing and your work has really challenged me on, is also thinking about, you know, how some of this is also saying that, you know, like, women are special, you know, and, you know, like, there's a part of the bride price where like, this is really fucked up. You know, the patriarchy of it all, where it's like, okay, a bride price and dowry, like that is very messed up. It very much is. And there was another part of the conversation that's like, but do you know how much this woman is worth?
Bolu: Exactly!
Aminatou: And I'm finding myself, I'm like, when I tap into the uber African-ness, I was like, you know, like, that is a complicated question to answer. Also, you can hold all of these things at the same time. But I really love to be challenged about that by you. Because I do think that it's more complicated than just like, everything is sexist, and everything is patriarchy.
Bolu: It was my mother that actually, like helped me understand that, obviously, when I was coming into my own on my own politics, I was trying to figure out like, I'm a super super, like, obviously, I'm a feminist, but I'm also African. And some of these things I don't agree with, but also I recognize, you know, how my mother was explaining the bride price to me. Although she obviously she recognizes those like selling women, but she was also explaining a different aspect to me, which is why today I'm like, I'm an, I call my feminist African and complex, because, of course, I recognize that it's, you know, is for women is a commodity but there's flipside of it where it's like, exactly, it's about the value of the woman in a different ways about how this woman is special. It's about like, Oh, this woman is going to be a blessing to your family. So yeah, that's what complicated my feminism and, and it challenged my feminism as well. And it's something that I wanted to share in the book as well, just like, you know, women are special. And, and there's ways that we can celebrate ourselves, you know, within romance.
Aminatou: It's so easy to be dismissive of, you know, like, like, tradition, especially for those of us who are, you know, like, we were in like this, this black diaspora, you know, and it's, it's so easy to just reflexively be like, No, no, the western feminism is correct. And, and looking back on our understanding, like, No, you know, also like, women in Africa are, they would like their own agency, and they would like to navigate our culture in a way that is culturally appropriate. And in the same way that I am challenged daily by living in western capitalism. I was like, Oh, this is what my mother and my grandmother also had to contend with, right. And so everyones creating things that work for them. And I don't have to agree with it. But it is important that I understand where they come from, and not dismiss it as just...
Bolu: Exactly.
Aminatou: You know like not having agency at all.
Bolu: Totally. And now it's nice, like, you know, when an African person or when an African person, like, a woman is like, you know, my bride price is up, it's about swagga, you know, it's about stating that you are the shit. It's about power. And I kind of like that reclamation, really because there's, there's a part of it, that it, that kind of is that in a, in a really strange way, I think was how my mother sees it and my grandmother sees it as well. So, yeah, it’s something that I like to carry with me. Just, it's a good way to challenge your thinking generally, when it comes to feminism.
Aminatou: I mean, making it a conversation about swagger is a conversation that I'm here for, because I will say your mom from afar swagger unmatched, so?
[laughter]
Bolu: Yes. [laughter] It’s about look at me, look at what I've done. Look at what I can do, you know?
Aminatou: Yeah, I just I just love. I love that, I love having like a complicated understanding of something that I'm like, I am really settled on my own belief about this. But it is important that I understand how, how women around the world, but particularly like women who come from where I come from feel about it. Because I don't know, I think that's what I like about modern life in general is like, wow, like we are all. We're all having these conversations, and they're really hard. And it doesn't have to be contentious either.
Bolu: Yes, it doesn't have to be black and white. And it really put me in my place because honestly, when I was coming into my own politics, obviously as like teenagers are and like people in their early 20s are, no offense if you're a 20s, but when I was in my early 20s, I found that I was automatically snobby. And I felt very superior to anyone whose feminism did not align with mine. And that included that to my shame, you know, parts of my own culture. And so I had to really reflect and be like, no, life is complex because humans are complex.
[ad]
Aminatou: Can you tell me what your favorite black rom coms are? Because I am on a real, I am on a real kick of only watching black people falling in love and it has been, it has been like very fun.
Bolu: Oh my gosh, I love Brown Sugar. I love Two Can Play that Game, Love Jones isn't really a rom com but I just love it because it has spoken word, which is, and like the spoken word is like not amazing, but I love it and it's funny to me. So that kind of makes it a rom com that's kind of my loophole. Um, what else do I love? I love anything with Gabrielle Union in it…
Aminatou: What are your Love & Basketball feelings?
Bolu: So I don't think it's a rom com. And it kind of annoys me, well, it's not rom com and people put it on romcom lists. It's like I watched again recently. Just, it's not my fave and I have to say cuz I just don't, I just hate that she, she like exerts herself to win the heart of a man. It really annoyed me at first she was like sweat and then and then it was kind he won and then she was walking away all sad and that was like a bluff. I was like oh I don't know I'm not sure how I feel about it but I understand what people love about love it so much. I do think there's, there are parts of it that I love but it's just not I don't know it's I think it's my me personally because I just can't imagine like breaking a sweat for a man. To win a man’s heart. [laughter] That’s the very West African woman in me.
Aminatou: Yeah, you're like absolutely not. Yeah, I mean, I really wanted to know whether you thought it was a rom com or not because so many of my friends feel the same way and then I went on the, I think it was like the wikipedia for it. And it was like a Love and Basketball is a romantic sports. like the way that they qualified it was so funny. It was like it's a romantic sports drama, and I was like wow…
[laughter]
Bolu: Like that’s a genre.
Aminatou: Like the genres are really splitting into places that I had never, I had never really
like considered. Are there also rom coms that you like, where only one of the leads is, is a black person?
Bolu: Trying to think of that, trying to think…
Aminatou: Like that one with Sanaa Lathan and The Mentalist you know the one I'm talking about?
Bolu: Oh my gosh, yes. Oh, Something New. [laughter]
Aminatou: Something New, I just recently rewatched that. [laughter]
Bolu: Really on the nose? Isn't it that title? Um, I actually yeah, that film is really sexy to be like, surprisingly sexy. I actually did like that one. Knowing that, you know, it's kind of yeah, like I said, it's very on the nose. But I think I did enjoy that one. My thing is like, I just don't want it to be with the fact that black people need to be qualified by a nonblack person to be like, deserving of love and romance. That film really wasn't about that, so that's fine. But there's some films I'm just like, I don't know if this could have been like two black people. Like if it felt like they kind of was like, Oh, you know, I don't want two black people on the screen at the same time. That's a bit intense. Let's mix it up a little bit.
Aminatou: I’m dying at, that's a little intense. [laughter]
Bolu: It’s a little bit much as a one interracial film that I thought had potential was Hitch it's just that unfortunately I do not think that, was it Eva Mendes?
Aminatou: Yeah, Eva Mendes.
Bolu: I don't think they had, yeah, chemistry, which is weird because they are two objectively very, very good looking people. But I just didn't, I didn't feel I felt like I should love Hitch more than I do, you know
Aminatou: That's so funny that you say that because Hitch is the movie that whenever my, I asked my straight guy friends, which rom com they like, Hitch was the favorite, like across the board, all age group, like it just makes no sense that all of them have seen Hitch. Nothing else. And the fans of Hitch, like the male fans of Hitch, someone should do a piece on this, it is wild. But I agree with you that I was like the romance is not there. And if anything you're rooting for like Paul Blart Mall Cop character in that because that's where the romance is.
Bolu: Yes. Yes!
[laughter]
Bolu: Exactly, Paul Blart, yeah, and Paul Blart, I think that they’re probably drawn to like the bromance side of it as well. It's a very, I mean, if you watch it as like a bromance, it works. They have chemistry.
Aminatou: It is I think that it's also a movie, like from what I have gathered from my straight male friends is that it's a movie that just speaks to them. But I also think that it's because it's a movie about men talking about their own vulnerabilities and that...
Bolu: Yeah.
Aminatou: That's also not, it's not always there and so I think that that's what's going on there. But you know, Hitch like objectively a good movie, but I agree with you that the spark, the spark is not real.
Bolu: Yeah, like I could watch it and I have, like generally good time because there are funny moments but in terms of the romance, I was just like, I didn't feel the romance side of it. I felt the comedy side of it, though.
Aminatou: Um, is there anything that you're reading right now that is particularly sexy or just good that you would recommend?
Bolu: Um, obviously, I mean, I didn't really recently finish it but I love it but it's not romantic but I still love it, Luster by Raven Leilani obviously adored that book.
Aminatou: Yes, yes.
Bolu: Thought it was sexy, kind of in a surprising way. It was erotic without really being like, romantically sexy, which I just thought was gorgeous. Um, in terms of romance romance, I love reading Alyssa Cole books, they’re so good. Because it's not just about the romance itself. It's about this really fully realized women who know themselves and know their voices. And the men who are like completely powerless against, not just like the physical attraction, and they're very, very sexy books. But also, who the woman is, is sexy to them, and vice versa. And they're cool. She writes queer stories as well. And I just love her books. Like I know when I'm picking up on Alyssa Cole book, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a good time. It's one of those ones that you like, I say, it's been a long time since I've like stayed up reading. I don't want to put this down. But the Alyssa Cole books like I that was the one that I just recently did that like it was 3 AM and I was like, No, I need them to bang on more time. And I'll put the book down.
Aminatou: I mean, that's a high compliment, staying up late to read a book in a pounded yam.
Bolu: I know. [laughter]
Aminatou: That's a lot.
Bolu: I haven’t done that since I was in school.
Aminatou: Are you working on anything else that is, you know, that we're going to hear about soon, I feel that you have a hand in a couple of things. And it's like, it's fun to follow you on Twitter. And I say this, as someone who doesn't tweet at all, you are one of the few people that once a week I just do a drive by, because I get sent your tweets every single day. And now I'm like, guys it’s okay, I'm just gonna go look at them and truly I don’t have a presence on that website anymore. But yeah, I was like, You're, you're--
Bolu: Honestly that’s a high honor because you are the best curator of social media. So that means a lot to me, I have to say.
Aminatou: Listen, it's because the people like you make it easy, but I'm just like, wondering what else are you working on right now?
Bolu: So I'm, I'm working on two TV things, which I can't talk about yet. But I'm super, super, super excited about and--
Aminatou: I love this.
Bolu: Like thing is, you know, corny as it sounds like I call myself a storyteller. Because as much as I love writing prose, so much, I love writing for TV and other mediums as well. And so I'm just so excited to be able to tell the kind of stories that I want to tell through this media, this medium that's kind of new to me not really needs to meet because I used to work at BBC, so I'm familiar with it, but it's needed the world really. I'm super excited about that and they're going to be rom coms. And the second thing or third thing is Honey & Spice, which is my new book coming out next year, both in UK and the US at the same time, which I'm super excited about. And that is a college based rom com, set in an ACS, which is an African-Caribbean society, in the UK. And I just love these characters. And I was actually working on this novel, when I got approached my editor for Love In Color with you want to write an anthology. And I actually said no, like three times to writing an anthology because I was just so focused on finishing this book, but obviously like the idea was just too, too tempting for me and I thought it would be a really great way to get my kind of mission statement out. This is the kind of things that I want to write but yeah, Honey and Spice is like my, my true firstborn. So I'm so, so good for the world to meet, my meet, my babies. [laughter]
Aminatou: I love this Bolu. This is so like, I'm excited. I'm excited on a pure just like fan level, I would like more Bolu, please, this is so great.
Bolu: Thank you.
Aminatou: I wanted to ask about your research process for Love In Colour because it occurred to me that it was probably, you know, like, you probably had to do a lot of intensive research on these Yoruba folktales. And I'm just really curious about that because I think that a lot of writers do not talk about that part of the process when they're writing fiction, for example, you know, and, and to me, at least, I was like, it just seemed like so much went into finding these stories. And I would just love to hear more about it.
Bolu: Sure, well, I love I love this question so much, because I'm such a geek, like I love, love research. Like, if I wasn't doing what I would I'm doing, I'd probably be in academia, because I just love research. So that was a really exciting process for me just discovering because I am Yoruba. But I still needed to research because I wanted to understand my culture more and Yoruba, I did Efek, I did ancient West African tribes, that, that are actually in Mali that don't exist anymore, but they're now modern, in modern day Mali. Chinese, Southern Africa and like so many. And for me, it was just such an exciting opportunity getting to know the world and different cultures, and also the similarity in so many cultures. What was really fascinating to me is that, for instance, in my in my kind of research journey, I found that there was a story in South Africa that was very, very similar to a story that I found in China, and really compounded the fact of like, this is why I'm writing the book because there's so many connections within love and romance and how we've seen love and romance throughout throughout time. And it was just such an honor to be able to bring that about… I saw stories of like similar stories of honor, of valor, of just the beauty of connecting with someone. Yeah, it was just fun to be able to get to know different cultures. How and how they see and use these cultures as a prism to see love and romance, you know.
Aminatou: I love that I'm really glad that you did not end up in academia, no shade to
the British, to the British ivory tower.
[laughter]
Aminatou: It was so nice to talk to you. Congratulations on the book. I'm so excited to hear other things that you make. I'm sorry that your boyfriend Michael B. Jordan is with someone else. But I know that he will come back to you
Bolu: I know, I need him to do it quickly. [laughter] No, it’s fine. I’m a Yoruba babe. I’ll recover quickly, don’t worry.
Aminatou: [laughter] Hey, have a great rest of your time in Lagos and thank you for coming on Call Your Girlfriend. Thanks so much
Bolu: It was a delight sis. Thank you so much for having me had a great time.
[interview ends]
[outro music]
Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet: callyourgirlfriend.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, we're on all your favorite platforms. Subscribe, rate, review, you know the drill. You can call us back. You can leave a voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. Our theme song is by Robyn, original music composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Our logos are by Kenesha Sneed. We're on Instagram and Twitter at @callyrgf. Our producer is Jordan Bailey and this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.