Transition of Power

1/22/21 - We discuss the inauguration celebrity parade, the fallacy of calls for "unity," Melania's caftan, Bernie's mittens, and "We will be back in some form."

Transcript below.

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CREDITS

Executive Producer: Gina Delvac

Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman

Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn

Composer: Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.

Producer: Jordan Bailey

Visual Creative Director: Kenesha Sneed

Merch Director: Caroline Knowles

Editorial Assistant: Laura Bertocci

Design Assistant: Brijae Morris

Ad sales: Midroll

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TRANSCRIPT: TRANSITION OF POWER

Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.

Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.

Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow.

Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman.

Aminatou: Hello!

Ann: Hello. It's inauguration week.

Aminatou: A new day for America as my friend Joe Biden says, LOLOLOL. [Laughs]

Ann: Well I mean, ugh, I'm really trying to have some hopeful and happy feelings and focus on the good things. Focus on the moments that were actually great from inauguration or things that felt great by comparison to the last four years. So it's like my great metrics are really off but trying to lean in. [Laughs]

Aminatou: Yeah. I mean nothing in the pandemic feels real. Even the inauguration does not feel real, you know? so I'm struggling a little bit with that. I have to confess the night before inauguration as I was doing my little skincare routine and going to bed I excitedly told myself "Ooh, last sleep in this regime." [Laughs] And for some reason that made me feel a little bit better then I woke up the next day and I was like no the dread is still here, like that has not changed.

Ann: Yeah, I mean that's what's hard about it. I also think that while I felt a lot of feelings watching Sotomayor swear in Kamala Harris and J.Lo say libertad y justicia, like you know, there's definitely there were some good little moments. There was something about Garth Brooks where I was like oh right, this is what's happening. [Laughs] This air quotes "unity" moment is really a struggle for me.

[Theme Song]

(2:10)

Aminatou: First of all Garth Brooks is a king of liberal America everywhere so love Garth Brooks and I do think that's one of the only moments of genius for this whole thing for me.

Ann: Oh my god.

Aminatou: I was like that's right, bring Garth Brooks forward. But I don't know. Since we're talking about the celebrity moments first I have to say that there is something that was really discombobulating to me about accepting that okay, sure, we need to have a public display of the transition and it has to be this public moment because you cannot let the domestic terrorists win. And also it's important to mark transitions of power. I get it. I was like this is why we're doing it. But there's something really discombobulating about like okay, you're claiming that this is socially distant. I'm seeing the people high-five each other. I'm rolling my eyes.

But the amount of the return to Obama-style it's cool to be a Democrat now that was on display today and the celebrities just like flooding in, flooding the zone, it made me really pause for a long time where I was like okay, is this necessary? I don't think so. My ideal transition, like if I were king in charge of the transition, if I were the Amy Klobuchar of transition, this would've been the role call at the DNC right? It's like everyone do it from home. Send Joe a DocuSign. Do everything. Please model for us the behavior you are asking us to have. But I had a really hard time justifying all these famous, non-essential people being there. That was something that was really hard to grok because one of the gripes that Republicans always have that I would say is 95 percent dishonest but is rooted in a little bit of honest truth is this charge of elitism and favoritism that happens on our side of politics. And today I was like no, people are correct. We are telling everyone else that they have to stay at home to save lives and it's essential that you only ever leave your house to do X, Y, Z. And I'm like if that's the case do I really need to hear Let's Get Loud at the inauguration? Tell me about that.

(4:25)

Ann: No you do not. Definitively you do not. [Laughs]

Aminatou: So that was something I was like it was really hard. And I know I'm like . . . it can seem like such an empty complaint when we've been through the nightmare of the last four years but it's something that I definitely took a note of and I was like I don't feel good in my body about this and I don't feel good about . . . I just don't feel good about a return to four years ago status quo because that was also not great.

Ann: Yeah and it's interesting because I do feel that it's important to have a moment that feels like -- that feels big enough to feel like a moment for something like this presidential transition. I actually think it was the right call to have a thing at all. But you're absolutely right about who really needs to be here for that? We're used to doing all things on Zoom now. We're used to a tight shot where there are that many people in the room. It would've been totally fine to just be like okay, this is the people getting sworn in and the people doing the swearing in and that's pretty much it, you know what I mean? It didn't feel like it had more fanfare. Like oh my god, the field of flags or whatever? Like the things kind of designed to make it feel full. I was just like we don't need that. I do appreciate a moment but you're absolutely right, we did not need a whole slate of performances.

(5:50)

Aminatou: And I will say about some of the moments I was definitely very affected and very touched and I think it was very important that there was an acknowledgment that 400,000 people in this country have died in the pandemic. And watching political leaders really take a moment to mark that, I was like yeah, we have been living in hell for a year and it's the first time that has been acknowledged by the holder of the highest office in the land. And that was really important and I'm glad that that was part of the celebration.

And again I was like I think it is a net-positive thing that we had this public inauguration. The gripes I have is really about who is essential to this process and what's going on? I also have to confess I obviously did not watch all of it. I watched a couple of snippets. And Sotomayor swearing in Kamala Harris, amazing, big, remarkable moment. We all knew it was coming because it was reported and there was something just very quietly powerful about seeing it. You're like okay, we bitch and moan all day but this is how progress is made. Here it is. I was surprised at how emotional that made me because symbolism is very, very, very important. There's a reason that we do these things.

(7:15)

And there was something even about seeing the outgoing VP accompany the incoming VP where it was like wow, this political theatre that we haven't had in four years where people pretend there's order and they get along, that's beautiful to me. Also reminded anew that Mike Pence's wife is literally named Karen. You're like wow, all along. [Laughs] Forgot about that.

Ann: Do you remember, I mean it honestly feels like a lifetime ago when they were just campaigning and we were talking about her towel charm business. Does that not feel like we were different humans?

Aminatou: I mean we were different humans because we didn't think the towel charms would be calling from inside the house. [Laughter]

Ann: We didn't think the Karens would be moving in, yeah.

Aminatou: Yeah, but we've gotten so accustomed to calling her Mother I forgot her name was Karen. I was like wow, the foreboding. Who knew? [Laughs]

Ann: God, it was a -- we are all different. It's like the Obama at the end of eight years grey is how I feel at the end of these four years. It's like my skin is bad. My hair is definitely greyer. My lower back is in constant pain. The physical toll, yeah.

Aminatou: I know. But it's like thinking back about those moments, all of the things that we didn't know and some of the things that were really funny to us or whatever when we did not suspect we would live under fascism for four years, I think it's really important to remember how we all felt after election day 2016 and really important to remember how we felt on inauguration day 2017. And I think those feelings should really guide the caution with which we approach the next four years. And I say this as someone who is wholeheartedly rooting for everyone in office. I am rooting for Joe Biden. I am rooting for Kamala Harris. Un-fuck the whole thing up. Do everything that you're supposed to do. I don't say this from an adversarial I don't like these people position but I am saying a lot of stuff today gave me moments for pause. Like even when I found myself sending you all the pictures of people's outfits and the fashion or whatever and I was like wow, the petty fashion moments are back. Nature is healing. [Laughs] Things that we told ourselves we could no longer enjoy even though now that she's no longer first lady I can say that I -- one of the biggest regrets of the Trump presidency for me is we did not get to discuss Melania's fashions and I do think she had some iconic outfits.

(9:55)

Ann: We dipped in briefly I think maybe when we were on tour. But you're right it was not a focus in the way that it maybe otherwise would've been had she not been the wife of a horrible person.

Aminatou: Right. Because everyone was like I'm sorry, we're living under fascism. We can't enjoy nice things so we're just like forget. And today we got our middle of the road candidate, like not the one anyone was excited about but the one who won and we're all back to "Oh my god there's a cool Democrat president in the White House again." I'm like hmm, this is part of how we got in this mess in the first place.

Ann: Yeah. I mean I will say that when I saw the list of first hundred days actions, I mean I fully agree with you that 2016/2017 feeling of really needing to be vigilant and actually needing to hold up our end of the democratic bargain and call our representatives and make clear we actually care about follow-through, all of that is true. But when I saw the laundry list of the first 100 days' priorities, did you see this checklist that came out? It's all this stuff that's so basic.

Aminatou: Ann it gave me goosebumps. It gave me goosebumps. I was like wow, things are on the board again. Important things are on the board again and honestly some things that really surprised me. I was like oh, wow, you are agreeing to make immigration a priority after we have literally put DREAMers in hell for the past four years after they all disclosed their status. Prioritizing the environment. Prioritizing these big relationships we have with other countries. There's something about it that is just maddening. The whiplash of I don't know if you notice for the last week Ivanka's father's, you know, when they send the readout of what the president is going to do every day?

Ann: Mm-hmm.

(11:55)

Aminatou: His said, for the last week, it was "President Trump will have many, many meetings and take many, many calls." That's what it said literally. [Laughs] Every time I read that I was like that's me. That's literally me when I don't want to do my work. And so today to see a semblance of oh, someone is going to sit at that desk and not pretend they're not working, that was really remarkable.

Ann: Yeah. And it's also for me it was a real rewind "I bet you're wondering how I got here" of a lot of the Trump administration's worst . . . what's the opposite of a greatest hit, worst hits? Lowest moments? I don't even know.

Aminatou: [Laughs] The hellish hits.

Ann: Right, exactly. I mean it's stuff like when I saw on this checklist reverse the federal policies against trans Americans including the ban on military service I was like oh right I . . . it's not that I forgot that that happened but it's something about seeing it lined up next to task force to reunite children separated from their families at the border. All of these moments that were galvanizing moments of horror. A kind of distilled policy evil version of things that have long been injustices in America, right? It's not like America has a great record on immigrant kids or trans people, you know what I mean? America was not doing great on these things before Trump got in office.

(13:25)

So I think it's like for me when I saw that laundry list of first hundred days' priorities it's like okay, it doesn't feel forward; it feels corrective. And that in itself is kind of sobering.

Aminatou: I mean it's very sobering. I also found myself today, there were moments when I got very angry watching TV. One of those moments is entirely my fault because I decided to tune into Fox News which never works.

Ann: Look at your life. Look at your choices.

Aminatou: I know and it was very maddening. But at one point Chris Wallace was very much praising Biden's speech. He's like I've been watching these inaugural addresses since John Kennedy's 1961 ask not and this is the best inaugural address I've ever heard. And everyone else on the set was looking at him like you're about to get fired. [Laughs] Then one of his lady cohosts was very much like . . . she's like "Ugh, Joe Biden is being so partisan. He's signing all these executive orders today." Then she said "What message does this send?" And as I was screaming at my television Chris Wallace says "It sends the message that he won." And I fully could not handle the comedy of that.

So I was like that for me. Then the other moment where I felt my anger rise a lot honestly was watching the pomp and circumstance of the congresspeople speaking. So hearing Mitch McConnell just be like "Oh yeah, we're all friends. Unity." I was like if I could enter this television and do something about you I would do it myself. And even Nancy Pelosi. The fact that these people were almost all murdered mere days ago and it was incited by their own coworkers and they are all pretending everything is fine, it's driving me up the wall. I was like do you people know what you're doing? You almost all died because your coworkers hate you and now you're pretending for the sake of unity we're not supposed to talk about that. That was something that was really, really hard to stomach and it took me back to very cynical living in D.C. days where you would watch these people come and go and you're like the only thing that's for certain whenever there's a new president is everyone switches sides on how they feel about budget deficits and everyone switches sides about how they feel about presidential authority. Just watching that dance happen right in front of our eyes, there was something about that that just activated my anger because the cynicism is still there.

(16:00)

Ann: Ugh. The thing that activated my anger is all of this unity language which was not just throughout Biden's speech but is kind of this overarching theme that I think a lot of prominent people in power are harping on right now. The thing that gets me is there is . . . I mean in some ways the right is correct: there's literally no way to practice unity and still live your beliefs in this country right now right? All of that stuff on the first 100 days' agenda, like treating all Americans like they're full human beings with rights for a starting point, is not a plan of unity. There is not a widespread agreement in America that all people are like -- like deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

Aminatou: [Laughs] Wow Ann.

Ann: What?

Aminatou: No I'm literally shook because of the truth of that, the profound truth of that. It's like yeah, we can't get along because some of us think that people are whole human beings and some of you don't so where's the line?

Ann: And listen, I know an inaugural address is not the place for a rhetorical examination of what does Merriam Webster day the word unity really means? [Laughs] But, you know, I was thinking about it and unity as oneness in the sense that everyone in this country, our fates are bound up together, that is actually a policy principle I would love to see us operate from right? That would mean everyone would be wearing masks and it would mean we would be taking a very different approach to public education and the environment and all kinds of things. And instead it's used in this super, superficial way of we need to make people who disagree with the basic humanity of others feel good, like feel like they're being heard or something, and it really bothers me. It feels like that word is something that is core to the beliefs that I hold about how I want to see this country run. Like yes I do want to see it run with a oneness and a sense of unity applied across the board. And it's like this misuse of language, I'm really feeling very angry about it you know? [Laughs]

Aminatou: I know.

(18:08)

Ann: And just the way it feels at odds with everything that actually needs to be done to start undoing some of the damage that's been done for four years, I really, really struggle with that.

Aminatou: It reminds me of this tweet I saw that was like it's no longer the United States of America, it's just the States of America. And I was like I am down for this re-brand because that is where we're at. But the other thing about unity for me is I am really happy to talk about unity and I think obviously we are going to have to move on because this situation is not tenable. Half of the country hating each other, I was like it's not going to work. It is not a long-term, tenable situation and I agree the situation is that we need to move on. Where we all disagree is what needs to happen in order for us to move on.

Ann: Yeah.

Aminatou: And so when I hear people just saying like yeah, unity, unity, unity, all I hear, it's like in a dysfunctional family when somebody does something bad and everyone else decides okay, the way to "move on" is to never speak about it again and to pretend that it never happened and that's the way no one gets hurt. I'm like are you kidding me? People have really gotten hurt. We need to learn lessons about what happened. We need to actually discuss what happened. And so how can we have unity unless there is, I don't know, like a commission that investigates everything that happened with the events of January 6th? How can we move on as a country if we do not all collectively process so many things that happened in the last four years? And how do we move on if we don't hold people accountable who really harmed this country?

Ann: Right.

(19:55)

Aminatou: And I'm like I don't know. I am down to be united and I want to get to that side but it is just empty words to say, you know, let's all pursue unity and let's all be together when the resentment is so clearly at the surface and the way to deal with that unity is to address it. So, you know, I'm like other countries have truth and reconciliation. We definitely need it. I don't know that we're going to do it but it is really maddening to see people talk about outcomes and not be willing to do the work to get there.

Ann: Absolutely. And also just the way that line of messaging is so effectively kind of echoed and manipulated by people who are very much responsible for so much of the pain that we are collectively in right now. I mean did you see Ivanka like "Can we now move forward in a positive way?"

Aminatou: What?

Ann: What that means is don't get mad at me, I want to actually keep living my life and having my businesses. Move forward in a positive way is just code for let's just forget everything that happened.

Aminatou: Right. It's literally code for like "I would like to go to fashion week again and I'd like no one to be mad at me." And honestly with this country's track record I fully believe that in a year-and-a-half it will all be water under the bridge. So that is . . .

Ann: The record is not good.

Aminatou: The record is truly not good. Even when there are consequences for misbehavior, in this country at least, rich and powerful people do not suffer consequences. So that is definitely top of mind for me but it's also I think that there is something that the people who call for unity and don't want to do the work and don't want to confront the accountability forget is that for the people who feel aggrieved or the people who are injured or the people who are terrorized and scared a call for unity with no accountability just leaves you feeling dispirited. And if you feel dispirited you will not be a full participant in democracy. And also that resentment will always just be there.

(22:09)

And so there is something about it for me too that's like okay, well the last four years were tough for everyone. They were definitely tougher for some people than they were for others and the louder the call for unity the more I look at those people like mm-hmm, you are not the closest to the bottom of the marginalized pool that someone can be. So it's also replicating all these other terrible tendencies we have when we have clashes about race or clashes about class or any of these things where people who are always top of the food chain want to very quickly move on and really do not take the time to realize what is at stake by wanting to do that and the fact that nothing will change if behavior is not addressed.

Ann: Yeah, I mean the definition of the easy way out that fixes absolutely nothing.

[Ads]

(25:05)

Ann: On inauguration day I tried to stop myself from spinning immediately into this line of thought. I was like can we just feel good for one second about someone who is not doing as many bad things being in charge of the country? There's a lot of cognitive can I just try to enjoy a little bit of this moment thing that was going on for me. But that is also -- it is really difficult for me when that is the overarching language. It does not feel brave or the kind of requirement of presidential office right now in this moment to just say we need to move forward and we're all in the same country or platitudes like that. Basically the whole unity line of rhetoric that was just so present throughout inauguration, I just feel it's hard for me not to feel despair about that for all the reasons you just said.

Aminatou: Yeah. It's also I just keep going back to thinking about obviously feeling relief that there are competent people in charge now and there are people that even when we disagree with them we can trust that they are not complete sociopaths, you know? Like we don't have to go to war with them because we don't agree. But like I'm really trying to balance that with also all of the knowledge that we have gathered in the last four years, namely that democracy is so fragile and that everything is hanging by a thread. I was like if the last four years we have been walking on eggshells, just wanting to forget that immediately and just say "Okay, sigh of relief. Joe and Kamala are driving the boat now. I can take a seat back." I was like well if you feel that way you probably have learned nothing in the last four years.

Ann: Right. Yeah.

Aminatou: Because the constant vigilance that we have is something I'm like it needs to carry on. I'm not saying that we need to be tense every day and at war with our elected officials and all of those things but I am saying that having a healthy dose of skepticism, having a healthy dose of still checking into the work of being a citizen, this moment should not change that we have to keep calling our elected officials for things that matter to us. It does not change that we have to show up for elections across the board. It does not change the fact that we have to stay informed as citizens and we need to -- you know, any of the activism that you've picked up in the last four years is activism you should be doing for the rest of your life now no matter who is president. And that feels really heavy to me when I think about how I have lived in the last four years. I'm like yeah, okay, how much of this is sustainable? But also how much of it is still very necessary? And it does strike me that it is still very necessary because it does matter who as the helm but some of these problems have always been here and they're not going anywhere. So putting the Band-Aid of okay, I like the new team on it is not going to help.

(28:10)

Ann: Right. And in some ways I actually am heartened by the fact that there are more people in office right now and people in greater positions of power who claim to care, right? Like one of the scary things about the last four years was the total lack of accountability. It's like everyone with a position of electoral power who could've held this administration accountable opted not to right? And I'm sure they got some letters from constituents saying "Can you please check this administration?" And I do think the shamelessness and the lack of accountability of the last four years, like that shifting to people who at least profess that they want to do right by a set of values that are a lot closer to the ones that you and I hold is a huge opportunity right? It's sort of saying that feeling that I had in the early days of this administration of all my calls and letters are going into the void, like I'm doing it to leave a record and to know that I said this is not okay by me, that is one way to show up in the world and it's another to kind of say like okay, you say we agree? What does that mean in practice? It's sort of like you say you want unity, what does that mean in practice for you? You say you care about these issues, like tick down the 100 days agenda. What does that mean beyond just reversing the policies of this last administration? That in some ways makes me feel more excited to keep doing this work than just telling myself oh, all politicians are terrible. That's just my personal motivator of maybe these people care a little bit more and maybe my time and effort means a little bit more, like reaches a little bit more.

(30:00)

Aminatou: Listen. I'm going to read to you a Biden quote from when he was swearing in the political appointees today because it was such a small thing but maybe of all the things that happened today this is the thing that choked me up the most because it was too much decency. I was like I cannot handle the amount of decency in this place. So he's swearing in the appointees and he's like "If you're ever working with me and I hear you treated another colleague with disrespect, talked down to someone, I promise I will fire you on the spot. On the spot. Everyone is entitled to being treated with decency."

Ann: Aww.

Aminatou: I'm like the amount of times I disagree with this man and the level with which this just choked me up today.

Ann: The preschool realness of that.

Aminatou: Yes, it tells you where we've been for the past four years. And again this is what I really mean by we can really disagree with policy and we can disagree with people's priorities or how they're tackling things or the optics of it all. But just knowing there's someone who cares about the basic decency of how you treat your coworkers, you know? Like you're the president; you're not the king. You are literally in charge of this tight ship and knowing that you just care about the people who work with you, I have not had that feeling in four years and I really genuinely appreciate that as a moment.

Ann: Ugh, thank you. I did not actually watch the swearing in of those appointees so I did not hear that myself. But yeah. What a relief, right? On that basic level. And another note, quote, "We will be back in some form."

Aminatou: I mean I died. I fully died when he said that this morning because I was like I hope you mean in handcuffs. I'm here for that.

Ann: Oh god.

(31:55)

Aminatou: But also Ann the tantrum of throwing yourself a party at 7 a.m. because you don't want to go to the noon party, I was like this energy is so demented. I could not believe it. I just could not believe the petty bang with which this man went out.

Ann: I have to say I have also been thinking about this word choice and this phrase a lot and we will be back in some form to me is in some ways the only good poetry to ever come out of this man's mouth which is to say it's like oh, right, this administration is not over. All the horrible things that were already part of this country and some that he granted much greater permission to express are all still here. You know, I don't know, the sum formness of it and the way that I am able to be continually surprised by the various ways that he has managed to stoke hate, I'm like you're right, you will surprise me. That is another case for staying vigilant. I know that was intended as a rallying cry for his supporters but I have to say this is one of those times where I'm like please do broadcast this statement broadly. Please do quote this because it is the truth. All this horrible shit is not going anywhere.

Aminatou: Yeah. It's not going anywhere but I would be lying if I said that there's not a tiny, tiny, tiny part of me that is very excited at the thought of this man starting his own political party to siphon off influence from the GOP. I'm like if the next four years are them fighting each other instead of fighting us there's a small part of me that's like okay, I would like to see it. But again . . .

Ann: Again I'm the Angela Lansbury eating popcorn GIF when you say that. [Laughter] I would love so much to see it.

(33:52)

Aminatou: So true. But again speaking of unity, right? I find myself thinking these deeply just petty things. I'm like yes, please, I'm here for the infighting. I am here for Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley to tear each other to pieces trying to be their party's nominee. I'm here for the Trumps trying to go after all their enemies in the GOP. And then it's like I remember that actually all of those power game still hurt so many people.

Ann: I know, it's true.

Aminatou: Even the people that I don't like, like the people that I do not like that I am politically not aligned with and I mean the citizens, not the politicians. The people who are like "I would never vote for the lady" or "I hate there's a black woman VP."

Ann: Your average bigot, yeah.

Aminatou: Even those people. I'm like this is hurting you and how are we going to be united if cannot have the bare minimum of agreeing that we are blessed to live in this country? Wow, I sound like a corny politician. I can't believe I said that. But you know what? I stand by it. There is just truly . . . it's like the only relationship I want to have with political adversaries is really like okay, I don't agree with you but at the end of the day we are really lucky that we get to disagree like this because that is not true for everyone else.

(35:15)

Ann: Yeah. And I do think that, you know, I will be really interested in the coming weeks to hear about whether there are any reforms planned for all of these loopholes in the presidency we heard about. There's a lot of opportunities for people who are in power now to do something about all of the, yeah, the places where the constitution has not maybe worn as well as the founders would've hoped. And I'm really thinking about, yeah, what are the -- beyond just how are we feeling about average citizens and their beliefs and how are we feeling about the future of party politics who is really doing some thinking and safeguarding about the institutions that allow us all to disagree but kind of show up in the same way? Extremely nerdy desires on my part.

Aminatou: Big questions that need big answers. I am here for that.

Ann: I have to ask you about Bernie's mittens.

Aminatou: Listen, Bernie Sanders going viral for doing nothing at all is so on brand. I just cannot even. [Laughs] Like I cannot. Cannot, cannot, cannot. I have enjoyed all the memes obviously. I love his energy. The mittens look flames. I would love some Vermont country store mittens too.

Ann: Oh, I'm going to let my mom know you're interested in mittens like that. She makes them out of recycled wool sweaters. I am fully going to get her on the case.

Aminatou: Whoa! Whoa, dead stock. I'm into this.

Ann: When I saw that photo I immediately sent her a link and was like "Did you send mittens to Bernie Sanders?" I mean the answer is my mom did not send mittens to Bernie Sanders. My mom would be sending them to a very different politician. But it did occur to me that I have seen those mittens before.

Aminatou: Ann please don't malign your mother who sends me the best care packages. If Bernie Sanders asked her for mittens she would 100 percent deliver on that.

Ann: Oh that is true. My mom is nonpartisan in her mitten providing.

Aminatou: [Laughs]

Ann: And then on the flip side Melania's $3,700 Gucci caftan for the dramatic landing in Florida, that's the flip side.

Aminatou: Ann I loved it. First of all, okay, since we're going back to Melania and I'm confessing that one of my biggest regrets was the missed fashion discourse of Melania, like all villains she is fabulously dressed so you cannot take that away from her. I love that her outfit today was also like . . . the black dress was also another nod to Jackie O because at the first inaugural she wore that powder blue also like Jackie O referential dress. But when this ghoul came out in that retirement caftan I literally cackled. I was like you know what? Touché. Until the end. Until the end. She put on her out of office, she was like I don't ever have to do this be best bullshit again. [Laughs] I am putting my caftan on.

Ann: Be dressed? That's it? Yeah.

(38:20)

Aminatou: I do not like this woman but that was a touché move, you know? I'm like I can't even. I cannot even be mad at this energy. She just cannot. She's so over it. Even I remember thinking, you know, her Christmas fracas when she was very much like I fucking hate doing this Christmas shit. I was like if she had been married to a different person or she had been a different first lady I would literally have been rooting for her. I was like thank you, you gave us some truly iconic moments. But you know what? You chose wrongly and you were wrong the whole time so no one gets to have fun with that. But the retirement caftan was iconic.

Ann: It's true, it really . . . it was a moment. I feel like that and the we will be back in some form, I feel like those two are -- well and the outgoing, this isn't an inauguration week story, but the story of Jared and Ivanka refusing to let the Secret Service use their toilet. Those, like the trinity of those things is just like I can still find a way to laugh through the horror these people commit.

Aminatou: I mean here's the truth: the last four years were awful. They were awful, awful, awful, awful. People really suffered but this tiny thing that makes me feel that these bad actors in the Republican party, namely Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, will maybe not get as far as Trump -- and this is a big maybe -- but the thing that keeps me going is they are nowhere near as funny as Donald Trump. Like Donald Trump is a piece of shit but also had some genuinely hilarious moments. I'm like these people have never told a joke in their life. They have never charmed anyone in their life. This is going to be fine. And one of the most maddening aspects of the last four years is you're just like okay, if we didn't have Nazis in the White House this would just be funny SNL fodder like the time we had an idiot '80s businessman in the White House and instead it turned into a nightmare.

(40:30)

Ann: [Sighs] Well our four-year national nightmare is not really over because all the reasons we just discussed but kind of, sort of in a way some parts of it. We can exhale a tiny bit.

Aminatou: Listen, some parts of it are over.

Ann: Yeah.

Aminatou: And that thing that you said earlier, that thing you said earlier has really struck a chord for me about so much of what is happening right now is corrective. And while I'm like I am ready to hurdle towards justice, please bend the arc of justice further, there is something just very soothing to the brain and to the soul about okay, the whole house has burned down but we can really start sifting through the embers now, you know, and figure some new stuff. And that, I don't know, I am really refusing to be defeated by these last four years and I think that that's really important too.

Ann: It's true. It's like the house has burned down but we can still see the outline of the chimney. The lockbox back in the closet has survived with a few important documents in it. We definitely have a few things we can use to rebuild. Yeah. And I don't know, I'm really . . . I am hopeful and energized about accountability beyond the just merely corrective stuff. I will say that.

Aminatou: Wow. What a day, what a week, what a lifetime. [Laughs]

Ann: I know. I know.

Aminatou: Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Okay. When we get off the phone I need you to text your mother immediately for me about some mittens. Thank you.

Ann: I am basically going to reply to the thread with the Bernie mittens and say "Can you make these for Amina?" I am fully going to -- watch your mailbox is all I have to say. I'm sure she has a stockpile of them already created because we are all coping with the pandemic in our own ways and the women in my bloodline craft, so . . .

Aminatou: [Laughs] Ah!

Ann: All right, I'll see you on the Internet.

Aminatou: I will see you on the Internet. I hope that we have some really boring weeks ahead. I'm ready for just regular racism to come back, regular infighting.

Ann: In some form. In some form.

Aminatou: Right. I'm excited for us to fight about what the vice president is wearing. I want the most boring scandals to happen. We did it Joe. Thank you. I will see you on the Internet.

Ann: [Laughs]

Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet: callyourgirlfriend.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, we're on all your favorite platforms. Subscribe, rate, review, you know the drill. You can call us back. You can leave a voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. Our theme song is by Robyn, original music composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. We're on Instagram and Twitter at @callyrgf. Our producer is Jordan Bailey and this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.

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