Independent Ladies
7/4/14 - We discuss the terrible terrible Hobby Lobby decision, how much we love RBG, why annual lady exams are garbage, our predictions for song of the summer and we answer all your pressing topic requests. Happy 4th of July!
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
LINKS
Everything Irin Carmon Has to Say About Hobby Lobby is The Truth
Annual pelvic exams are useless
TRANSCRIPT: INDEPENDENT LADIES
Ann: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Aminatou: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere and the readers of Entertainment Weekly. Thanks to all our new listeners for tuning in.
Ann: I'm Ann Friedman.
Aminatou: And I'm Aminatou Sow.
Ann: I mean what are we going to talk about today?
Aminatou: Well Ann on the agenda today we'll be talking about the Supreme Court and Hobby Lobby case, why Ruth Bader Ginsburg is the best. We'll be discussing the song of the summer, new pelvic exam guidelines -- obviously -- and as always there'll be a This Week in Menstruation update.
Ann: And maybe a few other requests from people on Twitter.
Aminatou: Oh yeah, we always take requests.
Ann: We do. I mean we filter requests.
Aminatou: That's fair.
Ann: This is -- at the end of the day this is our show. We're dictatorial.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
[Theme Song]
Ann: Oh man, Hobby Lobby. I just got done writing about this and I'm still a little perspired.
Aminatou: Do you want me to break down for our audience what the Hobby Lobby case is about?
Ann: Please do. I would love it if you did it instead of me.
Aminatou: You know, since everybody on the Internet has a law degree I'm imminently qualified to explain this. I personally have a degree from Law & Order University so . . .
Ann: Internet U.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Hobby Lobby is, for those of you who don't know, this for-profit corporation for crafty bastards that wanted an exemption from part of the Affordable Care Act because the owners allegedly say that it's against their religion so . . .
Ann: Wait, what's against their religion?
(1:58)
Aminatou: Birth control. So the owners are specifically willing to pay for certain contraceptives, right? And like every good member of Internet U I've been reading a lot about this and the thing that made me laugh the hardest was like Justice Alito, when he was writing the majority, kept saying how he had, you know, no trouble concluding that this insurance coverage burdens the owners of Hobby Lobby because of their religion.
Basically a couple of weeks ago, or a couple of months ago, we learned that corporations are people and now we are learning -- we have to learn that they also have religious beliefs. That's completely nuts to me. You know, and the other thing that's really interesting about this case is that it just really drives home that these people -- these people being a lot of Christian conservative people -- just don't believe in science. [Laughs] And don't care. You can't assert that abortion is immoral and that a specific type of contraception that Hobby Lobby doesn't want to pay for is also a form of abortion. It's complete garbage.
Ann: Samuel Alito has two children and has been married for like 30 years. Somebody is using contraception or else like not having sex.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Like maybe it's the latter but it's sort of like even you rely on this. I mean and I fall into this trap as well where it's like we make this a conversation about women because women have to face the consequences of sex in a different way when they have sex with men. But it really is annoying. Like reading that I was like, you know, wow, maybe your life would've been pretty different Sammy Alito if you had like 12 children. But I retracted . . .
Aminatou: Did you just call him Sammy Alito? Because that's great.
Ann: I did. I did do that. And I retracted that tweet after I realized that Justice Scalia basically has like 12 children and has done just fine. [Laughs] But, you know, personal choice. The point is maybe Mrs. Alito, forgive me for not knowing her name, did not want to have one million children. And just maybe, going to go out on a limb here, she used some contraception. And just maybe that is something that everyone who isn't married to a wealthy law professor might need insurance cover for.
(4:12)
Aminatou: Right? It's -- ugh, what did that crazy conservative man say? He just always annoys me whenever people retweet him.
Ann: Which one?
Aminatou: I know. The one that he seems kind of reasonable but he's still . . . oh, Erick Erickson.
Ann: Oh, I quoted this in my column.
Aminatou: His tweet was nuts. He was like "My religion trumps your right to employer-subsidized consequence-free sex."
Ann: Right. Well, and he put right in scare quotes.
Aminatou: Consequence-free sex? What is wrong with these people? I only like it when the sex comes with punishment? Like what?
Ann: No, I mean this is a very common, you know, like my Catholic conservative father would always be like "I'm pro-choice. You decide whether or not to have sex. That's your choice." It's sort of like . . .
Aminatou: Big Terry, I love it.
Ann: I mean it's . . . seriously, like this notion that, first of all, the only people who need contraception are sexually-active women. Like men don't derive any benefit whatsoever and, you know, the consequences are to be borne by women alone once they choose to have sex. Like that's just, I . . . like on the one hand it's true, yeah. I do choose to have sex. Like it is a choice. [Laughs] You know?
Aminatou: Yeah, make sure it's full of consequences Ann.
Ann: I mean, ugh.
Aminatou: You know, it's crazy. The other thing too like when you have a degree from Internet University that's kind of annoying is I personally really hate the 5-4 Supreme Court decisions because it's just this reminder that we're so divided on very, very, very, very basic questions. And that makes me really annoyed. I trust that you obviously read Ruth Bader Ginsburg's dissent because it was so salty.
Ann: I mean it's so good.
(5:55)
Aminatou: Yeah, it's so good. You know, like she's the only person there that gets it. I want nine of her on the Supreme Court and then maybe we'll get somewhere.
Ann: But like high-brow salty. The hardest kind of salty.
Aminatou: I know. She's like the court, I fear, has ventured into a minefield. Sing it, sister.
Ann: Also can we just talk about the silver lining effect of this decision which is Ruth Bader Ginsburg trending and getting all kinds of attention that she deserves for what is a stunning dissent?
Aminatou: Oh, you know I've always been on the side of RBG, the Notorious RBG. She's the best.
Ann: I know. You bought me my Notorious RBG t-shirt.
Aminatou: Ugh, she's so good.
Ann: Part of it is just fatigue too, like oh, another restriction that seems kind of minor that will probably mostly affect poor women. Like it's just how many different things in the realm of reproductive insults fit this category, you know? Where it's like oh, no one's taking away your right to an abortion. What are you getting so upset about?
Aminatou: No, totally. Or everybody kind of being on the side of this Christian family who owns Hobby Lobby, right? Because the whole linchpin for this decision too is saying that they're a closely-held company which a lot of people just confuse to mean that they're a small company. It's like no, no, no, these people have a lot of power and a lot of money.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: Closely-held does not mean small and it's going to have repercussions for us across every industry. I'm just really over it with people who don't like science. Ugh.
Ann: And that's something that, you know, the sort of . . . the Obama administration attorney who argued this case whose name is escaping me right now, you know, science wasn't an issue at all in the oral arguments. Like the administration decided to not even go after the fact that this objection is in no way rooted in science. Like if they were like, you know, we believe the sky is green and we're going to set all our policy according to that or whatever equally unprovable or demonstrably false fact they could've. And that was like -- the administration was like "Eh, we're not really going to challenge you on the facts."
Aminatou: Ugh.
(8:00)
Ann: Which I only went to Internet U for my law degree as well so I don't actually . . . like I can't comment on the merits of that decision but it was pretty frustrating. I remember even when it was argued to be like wait, you're just going to let that one go? Like completely? It doesn't matter at all whether your religious beliefs are in contradiction of science?
Aminatou: This is obviously going to play out for the next couple of weeks, you know? But it's just like another one of those minor-seeming things that turns you into a paranoid Internet lady and you're like they're always coming for our rights and our uteruses.
[Music]
Ann: I also went to Internet U for medical school and I just read a study . . . [Laughs] That says basically pelvic exams are useless. The experience of having cold duck lips thrust inside your vagina and cranked open and getting swabbed doesn't really do that much for preventive care.
Aminatou: But if you're a woman, anecdotally, you kind of suspect that this is true.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: Because it does absolutely nothing except for make you really uncomfortable and you realize that there's been . . . they used to do this exam, this exact same technique on your grandma, you know?
Ann: I mean swabbing is very last century.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know? It's just like it's awful. They . . . and also very paternalistic right? Like most women go in for that exam so that they can get birth control. I've been on birth control since I was 11. I don't really need to hear this right now. It's awful.
Ann: I mean it was also really validating, like if you go in . . . and you're right, you go into that annual being like what is this really doing for anyone? And you kind of have like, you know, some cold metal and a gloved hand up there for two seconds then they're like "Cool, bye." It feels like, you know, the most perfunctory violation. I don't think I've ever had a positive experience at a routine gynecological exam.
(10:10)
Aminatou: No, never. They're always finding crazy crap up there or . . . [Laughs] You know, they're like ugh, this test is weird. I guess we're going to take a biopsy. Uh, we can't see in here. Uh, why . . .
Ann: Oh my god, cervical biopsy. Ugh. Ugh. I'm shuddering.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know? But I'm glad that the doctors are looking into this because most women know your yearly pelvic exam is basically garbage.
Ann: Yeah, the quote from the Annals of Internal Medicine is that the pelvic exam has become "more of a ritual than an evidence-based practice." I'm like yeah, like a torture ritual.
Aminatou: Oh, awesome.
Ann: Like a horrible, old-fashioned . . . yeah. So I love that they're calling it out as that, but also . . .
Aminatou: If you're a vagina doctor it basically just means you have job security forever and ever and ever.
Ann: Ugh, it's so true. You're going to have to see everyone once a year because they need their birth control which may or may not be covered under the Affordable Care Act depending on your employer.
Aminatou: Yeah, I really want . . . like the vagina doctor who will get all of my money and admiration is the one who manages to make that exam just less frustrating and terrifying. We've been going for years and it's still the highest source of anxiety.
Ann: Yeah, can't they employ something like the airport body scanner where you just like . . . [Laughs]
Aminatou: Right? Like a full-body MRI.
Ann: Walk through a thing.
Aminatou: Oh my god, we are the reason healthcare costs are skyrocketing. Please use . . .
Ann: Or put on like an x-ray diaper that scans it. [Laughs]
(11:42)
Aminatou: Yeah, you know, it's . . . well, so I asked one of our doctor friends this a long time ago, shout-out John Hoover, about . . .
Ann: I was like which of our doctor friends? We have like one.
Aminatou: You know, our handsome creepy doctor friend John who said -- he's not creepy at all. But I asked him, this, why there has been basically no innovation of technique here. And his answer was something along the lines of when something is wrong in that part of your body a doctor's hand basically is the best way to tell.
Ann: Can that be true?
Aminatou: I don't want to buy that/I might've been drunk when we were Gchatting so I'm going to have to go back to the tapes. But also surely we can have a better way to deal with this.
[Music]
Aminatou: Hey, so also I feel that people have been tweeting questions at us that they want us to answer.
Ann: Topic requests.
Aminatou: Topic requests.
Ann: Agenda requests, yeah.
Aminatou: Even better. Hmm.
Ann: One of them was a World Cup check-in.
Aminatou: Oh yeah, so World Cup check-in. World Cup has been great. Yesterday was a really, really hard day for me because Nigeria and Algeria were eliminated and they were the last two African teams left in the tournament. Nigeria obviously has a very special place in my heart because my family lived there for so long but they're playing France which is like my other home so Sophie's Choice. On the other hand too it's been something that's been kind of delightful to watch is I remember World Cup '94 so, so, so well and how at least watching from overseas it seemed that the US team was a huge joke, you know? And the role of soccer here was also a huge joke. And seeing how . . . and I don't know, you know, if it's going to be here to stay or not. I'm reading all these think pieces about it, like will soccer finally . . . is this the year? You know, jury's still out but the team is a lot better and it's been really fun to watch communally with Americans. So who knows?
(13:55)
Ann: Great, I'm glad you tackled that. Maybe I can tackle an opinion on something else.
Aminatou: Tackle, LOL.
Ann: I mean sports metaphors. It's the best I can do. You can still tackle in soccer right? Don't they do it with their feet?
Aminatou: Yes, yes. Absolutely. Wait, so are you not watching the World Cup at all in London?
Ann: I mean I . . . much like in America it's sort of unavoidable. I find myself in rooms or bars or whatever where it is on. So like when you were talking about Algeria I was like pretty cute team. Really liked their pink shoes. Like I am that stereotypical about it.
Aminatou: Ugh, Ann, they are fasting. It's Ramadan. Have some decorum.
Ann: I mean they look really cute while fasting too.
Aminatou: They are very cute. [Laughs]
Ann: Like is it so wrong to say that? Like I mean I don't know. I just objectify them all or I root for whatever team seems to be sort of at an economic or like world cultural/political disadvantage. That's kind of how I . . .
Aminatou: Oh my god, we don't need your pity. But you know what? We'll take it.
Ann: It's not pity! That's like . . . that's like a general wanting to show allegiance with the group with like, you know . . . that doesn't have, I know, some kind of geopolitical dominance.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: It's not pity.
Aminatou: Ann Friedman.
Ann: I mean my fandom doesn't mean shit. Like that's what we've established. [Laughs]
Aminatou: I'm going to make you a t-shirt that says that, my fandom doesn't mean shit.
Ann: My fandom don't mean shit, yeah.
Aminatou: And on the back I'll just write out everything you're not participating in, Game of Thrones, World Cup. [Laughs]
Ann: Ugh. Those are my two chief offenses.
[Ads]
(16:52)
Ann: Although I'm sure there's a lot of other stuff. Anyway, what else did people ask that we talk about? I think there was . . .
Aminatou: What did people ask us? Yeah, Elle says "Please mention that birth control isn't a straight person's problem." Yeah, duh. Already tackled.
Ann: Check.
Aminatou: Snapchat and/or mentorship and/or the trendiness of Rose. I love how all-encompassing this is.
Ann: I love the idea that you're hanging out and mentoring someone while Snapchatting with a glass of Rose in one hand. Like maybe this is someone just describing her life to us.
Aminatou: Yeah. So I no longer use Snapchat so I feel like I am not the core audience for talking about that.
Ann: You don't even look at them? You just . . .
Aminatou: Yeah, I deleted it from my phone like months ago.
Ann: So wow, so all my Snapchats have been going into the void?
Aminatou: Yeah, pretty much.
Ann: Don't worry, they're all signs around London that just say humps. That's all my Snapchats are.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Humps, humps for yards, double humps, humps in both directions. That's just like all my Snapchats.
(17:55)
Aminatou: Maybe I'll re-download it and double-check.
Ann: Has Instagram Direct replaced it for you?
Aminatou: You know my Instagram Direct feed is on-point.
Ann: Oh my god, speaking of apps we both signed up for the new Emoji Only network, networking, I don't know, conversation all. What is it going to be? This thing called . . .
Aminatou: I have no idea. You know, I just love squatting on a username.
Ann: I mean and herein lies the problem. So this thing is called what, Emojli? Emoj.li.
Aminatou: Emojli? Emojli?
Ann: Emojli?
Aminatou: Unclear. What's your username?
Ann: Lightning bolt, scissors, lightning bolt.
Aminatou: That's crazy.
Ann: What's your username?
Aminatou: Mine is praying hands, what's the American word for aubergine?
Ann: Well did you . . .
Aminatou: Wait, what is it?
Ann: So -- it's eggplant.
Aminatou: Eggplant. I always get that wrong.
Ann: But did you watch the video on the emoj.li site?
Aminatou: No.
Ann: So there's a video where it's like "Your username can be any emoji like aubergine. Why is there an emoji for aubergine? We don't know." And I was like is this a joke?
Aminatou: Oh my god.
Ann: You literally picked the only one where we know the meaning. We know the meaning because it's . . .
Aminatou: Now I wish I had watched it. Ugh.
[Music]
Ann: Let's see, what else, appresh. What are we appreciating right now?
Aminatou: You know, I'm really excited that it's Fourth of July weekend. I love Fourth of July weekend. It's the best. It's second to Thanksgiving for me in the pantheon of great holidays because there's no religion, there's no gift giving, there's too much drinking, and also everyone dresses ridiculously and American flags.
(19:55)
Ann: Now this conversation about things I'm missing just continues because obviously I'm also missing that, although I guess I could attempt to have like a solo barbecue here or something.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know, try it. Maybe convert some people into knowing how great America is. You know, like a good Fourth of July barbecue is great, specifically if it involves like water and a good make out and some Rose. You're onboard.
Ann: I mean I'm a vegetarian who's very angry at the American legal system right now so I don't know that I'm the best ambassador.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: For the Barbecue, America loving.
Aminatou: Ann, are you traipsing all over Europe slandering our great nation? Because here's how I feel about this. You and I can talk about how dumb Hobby Lobby is and how ridiculous everything is but don't let those other people know please.
Ann: Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not slandering. I'm just -- I'm just being . . . I'm being real.
Aminatou: Okay. I'm just worried. You know, you have to be a really good representative of America. I don't know what to tell you.
Ann: Listen . . .
Aminatou: Like when those other countries get a Civil Rights movement they can talk to us about stuff that we do wrong.
Ann: I mean the Glastonbury Festival was televised on the BBC.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: And I'm feeling a lot of cultural superiority right now so don't worry. I was like Kasabian is your headliner? Bye.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Like I don't actually need to defend America to you people.
Aminatou: Oh my god, speaking of music and Kasabian, you know, I guess the other reason that I like Fourth of July is it's the weekend where you basically can tell beyond a shadow of a doubt who the strong contenders for song of the summer is. And . . .
Ann: Hit me. Who are the contenders?
Aminatou: I'm happy to report that on this side of the world Kasabian is not relevant. [Laughs]
(21:48)
Ann: Ugh, I mean I know. Kasabian is relevant nowhere. Like what is this, 2006?
Aminatou: I'm LOLing. Well, so let me hit you with the headline. In America we are having a great time and everything is heating up right?
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: Because here's the thing about song of the summer: it could be anyone. It could be a tiny, pint-sized powerhouse. It can be some sort of EDM all-star, Norwegian pop duo, breakout Aussie rappers. Like who knows? Field is wide open.
The good news too is that we are not going to get any Robin Thicke style run to the top like Blurred Lines last summer. It's just too late in the game for that to happen. Did you know that Blurred Lines spent like 12 or 13 weeks at number one last year?
Ann: Yeah, forever.
Aminatou: Yeah, and considering that Robin Thicke is a creeper and an asshole don't want to deal with that.
Ann: Although that seems universally recognized now. Like this new album which is basically the most stalkery thing of all time about his ex-wife Paula Patton has seemed to really kind of have made a dent in public opinion about Robin Thicke.
Aminatou: Well, but he's not stopping. He's literally stalking her from the top of every rooftop. Ugh, die in a fire Robin Thicke.
Ann: I mean not stopping is the definition of being a stalker.
Aminatou: Ugh, yeah, he just will not stop. So I personally, for me, would like Sia's Chandelier to be the song of the summer.
[Music]
Aminatou: I've been practicing the dance. Every time it comes on I get really excited.
Ann: Also Sia is so hard-working.
Aminatou: Sia is really hard-working. You know, Betty Who is putting in some really good work this summer too. I feel that the Brooklyn/hipster fav is obviously going to be the Robyn and Royskopp like Do it Again song.
Ann: Really?
Aminatou: I think so.
Ann: That doesn't have a sound of summer feel to me.
Aminatou: I don't know, it grows on you.
(24:05)
[Music]
Ann: I feel like song of the summer has to work for day drinking and night partying and that's why I can't endorse Do it Again.
Aminatou: Listen, try it. Try it and see what it does for you.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: But obviously, you know, the big contender here is obviously Iggy Azalea. She's competing with herself. She's on this Ariana Grande track Problem and that song is great. It also has a serious saxophone rift which is really important in song of the summer.
[Music]
Aminatou: Otherwise Fancy by Iggy Azalea is kind of perfect also. Been stuck in my head since May. I guess we'll see. We'll find out.
Ann: I'll try it out at my vegetarian non-America bashing barbecue this weekend.
Aminatou: Ugh, pray for Ann.
[Music]
(25:50)
Aminatou: How's your period? What's going on in menstruation over there?
Ann: Oh man, you know, menstruation is imminent in my personal life but also . . . [Laughs] But also, I don't know, I kind of wanted to talk about this first moon party video which is as you pointed out kind of one million Internet years old.
Aminatou: But it's very cute and relevant. I really like the company who does that.
Ann: Which is basically all about what if this were a great thing that we all partied about rather than something that girls felt weird and gross about. Is that a fair summary?
Aminatou: That's totally fair.
Ann: But I don't know, I mean it's hard because I read lots of books, like young-adult novels where girls' moms were kind of hippyish and very excited when they got their periods and I was not jealous of those girls. I was like ugh, awkward. I don't want to talk about it. [Laughs] So I feel like some kind of broader cultural change. I don't know. We need like all of the parents who right now are into weird, terrible things like not vaccinating their children to really get onboard like hive mind style with making periods awesome. And then maybe. [Laughs] And then maybe it would have some effect.
[Clip Starts]
Female: We have to celebrate.
Female: No we don't.
Female: Oh, it's family tradition. We're throwing you a first moon party.
Female: What the hell is a first moon party?
Female: It's one thing to lie to me, but to take that tone? It's on. Hi, do you make vagina cakes? Hello?
[Clip Ends]
Ann: I don't know. I don't know what else to say about it except I'm really happy to not be a preteen right now.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, absolutely. It's awesome being a woman. [Laughs]
Ann: Adulthood, my favorite thing.
Aminatou: Get on our level preteens. Get on our level.
Ann: Sometimes I really do think . . . sometimes I really do think I just fucking love being an adult.
Aminatou: Oh, absolutely.
Ann: Ugh.
(27:45)
Aminatou: Speaking of I'm really ready to get out of here and drink some Rose and get started on watching soccer and living my life so I'm going to sign off.
Ann: And we should also tell people that you can also follow us on Twitter at callyrgf and find us on iTunes and like us and review us and say nice things or say maybe not so nice things and we'll listen to them.
Aminatou: Constructive criticism, we'll take it.
Ann: Yes, thank you. And find all of our previous episodes at callyourgirlfriend.com and I'll see you on the Internet.
Aminatou: I'll see you on the Internet, boo. Love you.