Breakup Tme

7/17/14 - We discuss 42-year-old women, the potato salad Kickstarter and our dream food-truck ideas, how to break up with a bestie, uteruses for rent, and free PR advice for LeBron.

Transcript below.

Listen on Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | Overcast | Pocket Casts | Spotify.

---

---

CREDITS

Producer: Gina Delvac

Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman

Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn

LINKS

In “praise” of 56-year-old men "praising" 42-year-old women

The infamous potato salad kickstarter

LeBron takes his talents to South Beach and back again

The LeBron profile Nike didn’t want us to read

Apparently you can get paid to gestate a baby

Sponsored shout-out to Heraty Law!

---

---

TRANSCRIPT: BREAKUP TIME

Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.

Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere. I'm Ann Friedman.

Aminatou: And I'm Aminatou Sow.

Ann: This week we're going to talk about Amina's big move. You are moving across the country tomorrow.

Aminatou: Ugh.

Ann: We're going to talk about 42-year-old women and praise of 42-year-old women -- I'm doing air quotes, you can't see me -- you know, conflict feelings about potato salad and Kickstarter. I mean actually my feelings about potato salad are not conflicted. And about this New York Times story about America allowing people to pay for space in women's wombs which is mind-blowing. And we got a question via email about how to break up with a bestie, or former bestie. Oh, and LeBron. You want to chat about LeBron too.

Aminatou: Yes.

[Theme Song]

Aminatou: You know, I kind of really want to tackle this breakup question first. How do you feel about that?

Ann: Do it. Let's do it. Do you want to read the email?

Aminatou: Yes, I'm currently searching for it because we're very organized at Call Your Girlfriend.

Ann: Wait, I have it if you want me to read it.

Aminatou: That's perfect because I literally just searched for that email in my inbox and I searched Nate Silver. I don't know why. [Laughs]

Ann: I mean you're under a lot of stress lately.

Aminatou: Nate Silver should not be a search result for anything in my life.

Ann: Oof, no.

Aminatou: Please tell us. Please tell us what happened.

(1:50)

Ann: That she has a friend, but to quote from her email "I just don't think that this friendship provides much value to either of us anymore and she hurt my feelings a bit but I'm not sure if it's kinder to say that because I'm pretty sure I don't want to hang out with her anymore anyway."

Aminatou: This whole thing is just fascinating to me because I think that friend breakups are just as painful as real breakups.

Ann: Oh my god, or worse.

Aminatou: And so much more complicated on a million more levels, right? When you break up with someone that you're dating you can kind of leave a lot of that life behind and then when you break up with a friend there are different politics that come with that. I don't know. I think that the underlying question that we have here too is basically like how do you break up with a friend?

Ann: Right, do you do the slow fade?

Aminatou: Do you give them the slow fade out? Or do you have a very dramatic this is not working for either of us but mostly it's not working for me? I've only had like one significant friend break-up and it was a very, very, very close friendship and I think that we both handled it like babies because we were both traumatized and it kind of took three years to have the conversation, the we are no longer friends conversation. Sometimes you're -- like your friends hurt you and you just want to be a baby about it. I endorse being a baby sometimes and having your feelings hurt. [Laughs]

Ann: Right.

Aminatou: But I think that depending on how close somebody is to you at some point you kind of have to communicate to them that you've emotionally released them.

Ann: No, I agree with you but I also think this reveals a fundamental divide in how people wish to be broken up across the board. There is no universal preference for the slow fade versus just tell me straight when it comes to dating. I honestly do think there are some people who you're right, it doesn't really work if it's like someone who you are really, really close to. But some people who do prefer like the slow fade -- like some people are like I would feel better if I know that you actively don't want me in your life.

(3:50)

Aminatou: Yeah, I mean I'm kind of the master of the slow fade but slow fade is mostly reserved to, you know . . .

Ann: Always playing a long game.

Aminatou: Yeah. [Laughs] It's so true. I don't think that we will break up just because we're too big to fail at this point.

Ann: Also we have matching tattoos. We can never break up.

Aminatou: Yeah, we have matching tattoos. We're business married. It will be very messy if anything happens. Oh my god, maybe we need a prenup. But you know . . .

Ann: We want prenup! [Laughter]

Aminatou: I think that, you know, if you were upset with me at that point I would like to know about it so . . .

Ann: Sure. I haven't had that many situations where somebody has been a really close friend for a long time and then all of a sudden it just isn't working. It's almost something that happens -- you know, I've had that happen with people I get close to and have been close to for a few months, or for like a year. And then it's like oh, wait, this doesn't have legs.

Aminatou: No, totally. And those are always a very dodge the bullet kind of situation for me.

Ann: So we don't really have advice for this poor woman. I feel like we need to know more about the friendship and all of this stuff.

Aminatou: Wait, no, I think we kind of have advice. You clearly decided that you don't want to be friends with this person. That's fine. I am a firm believer in choosing something and being okay with it so don't torture yourself over it but give yourself enough space and time that you can change your mind because you never know how this person will come back into your orbit and how you'll want to handle that.

Ann: Ugh, that's a good point. There's no . . . I actually think that this is also true of exes even though it's easier to kind of separate your life from them than a friend. But you have no idea how people are going to come back into your life.

Aminatou: Yeah, you just -- you never know. Like they will send you emails. You'll see them in weird situations and you just need to be mature enough that you know how to handle that and it's just going to involve not having a tantrum. But also the one thing that this listener said is that their friend is not on Twitter so she can't talk about this here and I was like I don't know how you're friends with people who are not on the Internet. [Laughs] So clearly -- clearly your boo has not been keeping tabs and is about to get caught unawares which is not surprising.

(6:05)

Ann: I mean they clearly have like an IRL-only relationship, like a very cute retro friendship.

Aminatou: [Laughs] I'm sorry. I check up on all my friends online. That's how I know the temperature.

Ann: Oh my god, I know. When I used to have a Twitter account only for when I was drunk or stoned you would be on it. Like you would text me immediately like "Hmm, I see what you've been up to."

Aminatou: That is so ridiculous. Okay.

Ann: I miss you defunct Twitter account. Anyway, let's talk about your big move. Oh my god, it's happening.

Aminatou: It's happening tomorrow, and you know the best part? There is a ginormous pile of clothes on my bed and on my floor so maybe it's in fact not happening tomorrow. Also . . .

Ann: Is that why your acoustics are so good? You just pad it on in there.

Aminatou: Well we'll find out if my acoustics are good or not. Also you know how I'm a heavy breather so we'll figure this out. Yeah, you know, like moving is a little stressful. I -- also my superpower is missing flights and not giving a fuck about them.

Ann: I'm aware.

Aminatou: And I have to get on this flight tomorrow at noon and that's also stressing me out.

Ann: I mean noon, you can do that. You can do noon.

Aminatou: Ann, do you know me?

Ann: I do know you.

Aminatou: Noon is cutting it close. I have breakfast plans and then I have to be at the airport. This is -- something's got to give.

Ann: I thought confidence would really be what you needed in that moment, but you're right, I'm worried.

Aminatou: [Laughs] Listen, like I've been worried since I bought this planet ticket about making this flight.

Ann: Okay, so what are you excited about in terms of being a resident of the best coast?

(7:50)

Aminatou: Silence. 

Ann: Oh no!

Aminatou: I am excited about . . . here's the thing. I'm excited about my new job. I'm excited with connecting with west coast friends that I haven't seen in a while and getting close to them and, you know, all that good stuff. But really I . . . I'm very much a wait and see kind of person. You know I don't get excited about anything until it's actually happening.

Ann: So the answer is nothing.

Aminatou: The answer is TBD. [Laughs]

[Music]

Aminatou: Oh, tell me about Esquire.

Ann: It's like oh, 42-year-old women are really doing those Pilates and we still want to fuck them. Great. Like that's essentially an essay that Esquire published in praise of but really this sort of like acknowledgment that we police which women are sexy.

[Clip Starts]

Male: Go to a party. There is simply no one as unclothed as a 42-year-old woman in a summer dress. For all her toughness and humor and smarts, you know exactly what she looks like without the advantage of knowing who she is.

Male: Mrs. Robinson, you're trying to seduce me. Aren't you?

Male: Benjamin Braddock asked Mrs. Robinson a long time ago. The question back then was all that mattered. Now we wait for the answer.

[Clip Ends]

Ann: It's almost like Esquire was like "We're going to give Ann something to opine on this week." There was a really funny Twitter conversation about this among editors who were like "Where were the editors?" in the way that you always say "Where are the parents?" Where are the editors? They're supposed to prevent writers from making fools of themselves by writing things like this. And I was just kind of like well, this is probably . . . I can just as easily see this as having come from an editor. Like yeah, 40-year-old women are really having a moment. We've decided to acknowledge they exist. Slate published a kind of lovely little retort in praise of 56-year-old men which is how old the writer Tom Junod is. I have always thought 40-year-old women were sexy. I thought Mrs. Robinson was sexy.

(10:15)

Aminatou: Right? It's like get on my level Tom Junod.

Ann: Yeah.

Aminatou: Also it takes him being 56 to realize that? Ugh.

Ann: I love how he's like I now deign to fuck women who are 14 years younger than I am instead of 20 years younger. [Laughs]

Aminatou: Exactly, and I'm like in the process you sound like an idiot which is my favorite thing about the Internet, it exposes all idiots over time. It's so perfect.

Ann: It's also this particular men's magazine tone that is like oh, we just love women athletes or we just love women comedians. But it all is sort of like -- have this air of oh, we're granting approval. Like don't you just love it when we tell you how much we love you?

Aminatou: Right? And then the level of mansplaining that was happening around it was hilarious. My favorite mansplainer John Chate obviously had to jump onboard.

Ann: Top-level, quality mansplainer.

Aminatou: Oh my -- you know, I'm just like what? Yeah, the man baffles me. But that's the thing I don't understand. I'm like you say something and then literally like 100 women push back on you and his answer is "But you don't understand." It's like well I'm glad that this is news to you.

Ann: It was also really funny how the article tried to construct an objective argument for why they're writing it now. Like at one point they were like "We're living longer so 42 is actually younger."

Aminatou: 42 is the new 24. [Laughs]

Ann: Yeah, which is sort of like I love it. It's still holding up this idea that if you're a woman younger is always better. There's a great essay that Molly Crabapple wrote about turning 30. Did you ever read this?

Aminatou: I think so.

(12:00)

Ann: You know, it wasn't anything super earth-shattering. It was just sort of like, you know, "I was afraid of turning 30 for no reason whatsoever because I thought I would be losing some sort of youthful sexual power. That was also something that worked negatively against me when people thought I was just some stupid girl." And turning 30 was also -- was actually really liberating, which is obviously duh, we all -- you know? I mean I know you're still on the wrong side of 30 but you're one of us.

Aminatou: Oh my god, I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I'm going to be there so soon.

Ann: You're so close.

Aminatou: Give me like a year. [Laughs]

Ann: But it's funny because it's like I don't really have any of . . . like I remember my mom's 40th birthday when I was a kid and she had all of these like gifts that were, you know, I remember this black sort of button that someone gave her that said middle age is like underwear. It creeps up on you.

Aminatou: [Laughs]

Ann: And it's like I remember seeing it and thinking it was super weird because it's not . . . I don't know, I just think of my parents as like ageless when I was little. I wasn't like oh, you're middle aged or you're a young mom or whatever. It's just like, you know . . . I don't know. That paradigm for there is an expiration date. And Esquire has somehow deigned to readjust the expiration date for women is . . . is so obnoxious.

Aminatou: Cannot even handle.

[Music]

Aminatou: So I heard that you have a lot of feelings about the potato salad Kickstarter. This is so -- this is funny to me, you know? I mean I think that crowd-funding is bullshit so I think potato salad guy is the hero of our times.

(13:58)

Ann: Wait, wait, you have to explain just in case anyone is unaware just what the potato salad Kickstarter is.

Aminatou: If you're unaware of the potato salad Kickstarter I literally cannot help you. Just kidding.

[Clip Starts]

Male: Zack "Danger" Brown started -- Danger Brown. Talk about cooking potato salad. But he started a Kickstarter campaign to raise ten dollars to make potato salad, crowd-sourcing his bill to the Internet. Well his request for backing has gone global and he's joining us live right now. Good morning Zack. [Applause] Come on up, Zack. Danger!

Male: When I first heard about this yesterday I kept thinking this is crazy.

Zack: This is crazy, yeah.

Female: And do you really keep making potato salad?

Zack: Well I haven't made any potato salad yet. [Laughter]

Female: You never made it?

Zack: I've never made potato salad.

Male: Is this where the name danger comes from?

Female: "I have never made potato salad?"

Zack: I'm pretty risk-averse so I thought I'll go to Kickstarter, I'll ask for ten dollars to make potato salad, and the rest is history.

Male: Do you have to send some of this potato salad to those countries? To those people?

Zack: Yeah, so we've offered a bite to anybody who gave at least three dollars, and the way that we're going to handle that, we're having a giant party in Columbus, Ohio. The entire Internet is invited. You guys can come too.

Male: Danger, danger!

[Clip Ends]

Aminatou: Yeah, genius.

Ann: So the other Kickstarter-related thing that happened was an exchange that I saw this week, someone who was really upset at a filmmaker whose Kickstarter campaign he had donated to and then the film never was released. Like this was like years ago. And it is true there's no -- I mean I know this is separate from the potato salad issue but there really is no accountability whatsoever with Kickstarter.

Aminatou: When you give somebody money who doesn't have a fiduciary duty to you I just never trust that they're going to deliver.

(15:52)

Ann: It's like a new way of doing stunts, you know? And I say this as someone who has effectively used it, you know? When all of my coworkers and I were fired we Kickstarted a single issue of a magazine that we had no intention of continuing and that was generally financially not feasible. At the end of the day it was like a fun project and a great publicity stunt but it was not anything more than that.

Aminatou: No, it really was. For me those are kind of the only Kickstarters that I'll donate money to. So if they're friend-related and like friends that I actually like, so that was true of you and your crew. [Laughs] But usually I stay very, very far away from celebrity projects because I'm like you already have all the money in the world. I don't understand why I need to give you money to make a Veronica Mars movie. That's ridiculous.

Ann: You've never Kickstarted James Franco?

Aminatou: Absolutely not.

Ann: [Laughs]

Aminatou: I was like these people actually know where else to find money and the fact that you're giving them the money shows that you're a complete noob.

Ann: Right. The worst.

Aminatou: There's a whole system to make this work. And yeah, or just like -- I secretly love dumb wearable tech projects. Give me a watch that will charge my phone and I can put in my bag. Absolutely. [Laughs] Sign me up.

Ann: But I mean I feel like the Mr. Potato Salad is kind of like . . . you know, so a friend of mine was complaining to me the other week that she had seen on Facebook a request -- a request to give money to help someone with their cross-country move. They were like "We can't afford to move. We'd love help from family and friends." And it was like really? People are asking for money for a personal need? Which doesn't bother me at all. I kind of feel like it's much like with Mr. Potato Salad, it's like people choose what to give their money to. And yeah, it's tough that we can't find any money for major refugee crises, etc., but that's because people are selfish and awful and this is just exposing that.

Aminatou: Yeah, right? But isn't that what all that research on giving says? That people would much rather give to individuals than to causes?

(18:02)

Ann: Right, I mean . . .

Aminatou: There's no excuse for giving to potato salad guy. Let's be clear. [Laughs]

Ann: Yeah, I was like . . .

Aminatou: Potato salad guy's not like some kid in Africa who needs our money. But, you know, I support him. Also good luck to him because his tax burden is going to be something like $25,000. So good luck to you.

Ann: Oh my god, no one's crunching Mr. Potato Salad Man's tax numbers. Get an accountant on it.

Aminatou: It's all I can think about. Any time the number goes up I'm like oh boy, you'd better save a quarter of that homie. Tax man's going to come for you.

Ann: Yeah. I still feel okay about Kickstarter. I feel like the problem with Kickstarter or with crowd funding is people who put too much faith in it or like get too excited about it as sort of like a solution, or more important than it really is.

Aminatou: To those people stop being crazy.

Ann: Right. Curb your potato salad outrage.

Aminatou: [Laughs]

[Ads]

(20:20)

Aminatou: Good luck to you potato salad man. Talk to me. I think the first time we hung out you brought up potato salad.

Ann: Nah, girl, deviled eggs.

Aminatou: Deviled eggs. Good call. Good call.

Ann: Different Midwest snack.

Aminatou: I know, but don't you make like a buttermilk-based potato salad? Is that you?

Ann: I make a really good buttermilk-based potato salad.

Aminatou: Yeah, that shit's delicious.

Ann: But it's really . . . it does not even come close to my deviled egg game.

Aminatou: You know what? You should make a Kickstarter for that and raise some money for us.

Ann: I don't know. I had -- I once had an elaborate idea for a deviled egg based business called She Devil.

Aminatou: [Laughs] You're everything that's wrong with small business ownership in this country. No.

Ann: Everything that's right. A Rosanne and Meryl Streep themed deviled egg business would not slay?

Aminatou: Oh my god. Oh my god.

Ann: I mean it would slay. Anyway . . .

Aminatou: One day we'll do a whole episode on how I feel about small businesses and how when women do them they do things like deviled egg businesses. We'll talk about this.

Ann: I mean for the record I did not start a deviled egg business. It was just a fantasy small business that I will never actually follow through on because I'm only good at one thing which is writing for the Internet.

Aminatou: That's how it always starts and then next thing you know there's a Kickstarter and somebody hasn't saved money for taxes.

Ann: Watch me get stoned tomorrow night and make like a deviled egg Kickstarter. 

Aminatou: [Laughs]

Ann: Two and it's a trend. I would get covered everywhere.

Aminatou: Oh my god, that's ridiculous. If you do that I can just have my Bakmi food cart that I've always wanted to have, auto Bakmi.

Ann: I mean . . .

Aminatou: It'll be perfect.

Ann: See, I love that you were acting like I'm the only one with a fantasy food truck. Like you totally have . . . [Laughs]

Aminatou: I know, Ann, but you're the one with all of the execution willpower so this is why I'm afraid.
Ann: You're saying you don't make a good Bakmi? You just want to -- you just want to name it.

Aminatou: Yeah, I just want to name things. Please, this is all in my freeideas.biz folder. It's fine. [Laughs] It'll be great.

[Music]

Aminatou: Hey, so funny, funny, funny story. Somebody made a LeBron joke to me and I was going through my email looking for it so I obviously searched for LeBron James and the first thing that popped up was your newsletter and I don't know why it made me laugh so hard. [Laughs] Because I was like oh, Ann Friedman is reading about LeBron James? Few things are funnier to me than that.

Ann: Well because it was journo nerdy, that's why I was reading. There was this . . .

Aminatou: I know, but that's what I realized. I was like what is -- what? First I thought it was like some sort of mistake and then I read -- I read the story that you linked to in the newsletter which was really, really good.

Ann: No, it was great. So the story was that Nike paid a journalist for Port Magazine I believe this in-depth LeBron James profile and then when they read it freaked out and didn't want it published and tried to get the writer to agree to not publish it anywhere and then Deadspin published it this week and it is fascinating.

(23:40)

Aminatou: I mean it's fascinating. It's pretty funny because the man who wrote it I guess is some sort of novelist -- sorry I'm unclear who he is -- but he was very much like "I don't understand why Nike has a problem with this profile." And I'm like you make Nike sound crazy, which let's be fair, Nike acts crazy and LeBron is boring which is, you know, it's his fault and kind of not. He's answered every question he's supposed to answer.

Ann: Right.

Aminatou: But I thought the whole angle on it was really funny. So, you know, I have one LeBron story in this agency I worked at, he paired up to do a campaign for high school dropouts which is funny because I don't think LeBron finished high school. [Laughs] LOL.

Ann: Yeah, he's like don't do what I did kids. I'm just super successful.

Aminatou: Yeah, don't drop out and become a bazillionaire. Like stay in school. [Laughs] And literally we had something like seven rounds of meetings for like one tweet that I wrote with all of LeBron's marketing people. Granted these were not Nike people; they were like actual . . . I believe they call themselves Team LeBron.

Ann: Oh my god.

Aminatou: And let me tell you how crazy bananas Team LeBron is. The fact that you need more than one person -- I believe it was like ten people -- on multiple, multiple calls to screen one tweet that did nothing for high school dropouts. The rate is still astonishing. [Laughs] I remember the tweet got really low engagement. But that was kind of my first foray into how managed celebrities are, you know? And how there's so many barriers to get to them and honestly a lot of them are really ridiculous which a lot of that comes out in the Deadspin story, right?

Ann: Right.

Aminatou: And how they won't let him -- get close to him at the Nike store to shop for shirts or talk to him at the bar. [Laughs] It's like yeah, this is . . . ban celebrity profiles. You know, since I have to ask, I wouldn't be doing my podcast journalistic duties if I didn't ask, how do you feel about LeBron going back to Cleveland Ann?

Ann: I mean . . .

Aminatou: [Laughs]

(25:50)

Ann: This is like -- you're putting me on the spot for not knowing anything about like . . . I mean I do know that the Cleveland team is called the Cavaliers. That's right, right?

Aminatou: That's good. Yes, that's exactly what they're called.

Ann: I don't know, I mean . . .

Aminatou: It's okay. It's mostly because I feel like we've never talked about this. A couple of years ago when LeBron . . . basically LeBron needs to hire us for PR because he has the worst PR. I think this is my takeaway from the last week and just the last couple of years of watching him is like please hire the girls from Call Your Girlfriend. We'll fix your life. Basically the best way to my heart is by quoting his press conference when he left the Cavs the first time to go to Miami and he very contritely tells the country, he's like "I'm taking my talents to South Beach."

Ann: [Laughs]

Aminatou: And that's maybe the number one way into my heart is to quote that back to me.

[Clip Starts]

Male: The answer to the question everybody wants to know. LeBron, what's your decision?

LeBron: Um, this fall -- and this is very tough -- this fall I'm going to take my talents to South Beach and join the Miami Heat.

Male: Miami Heat? That was the conclusion you woke up with this morning?

LeBron: That was the conclusion I woke up with this morning.

[Clip Ends]

Ann: I feel like that's what you should say before you step onto the airplane to leave New York, just like "I'm taking my talents to South Beach."

Aminatou: I mean that's all I've been saying -- that's all I've been thinking all week. I'm like I'm taking my talents to Silicon Valley.

Ann: South Beach should be so lucky. We should go to Miami sometime. I have never been.

Aminatou: Ann, I love -- so I went to Miami this year for the first time and I loved it. I can't believe nobody had told me about Miami. Miami is great. It's like real America but it has a real scene and the weather is nice and Pitbull is from there. It's . . .

Ann: I mean obviously I didn't want to be the one to say it.

Aminatou: Miami is delightful.

[Music]

(28:10)

Ann: Let's see, oh, the last lingering agenda item -- which is kind of serious now, I feel bad that we left it for the end -- but the story just blew my mind last Sunday, or I guess by the time people are listening to this a couple Sundays ago. The New York Times wrote a long story about the fact that America is one of the few places in the world where you can pay a woman to gestate a baby for you.

Aminatou: Wait, so tell me, you can like rent your womb?

Ann: Yeah. So you and I, who have very desirable wombs, could totally like . . .

Aminatou: [Laughs] I have a very hostile womb I've been told.

Ann: I mean women with desirable wombs -- let's just put it that way -- who like being pregnant, because they interviewed a bunch of them who were like "I'm into it" can be paid thousands and thousands of dollars by couples mostly from other countries -- this is what the article focused on -- particularly gay couples from other parts of the world who want kids, to be sort of implanted with an egg that has some genetic material from the couples and give birth to it and hand it over. Which creates all these problems then because the baby has an American birth certificate and may or may not be biologically-related to one or both of the parents, so then when they take the kid back home trying to get the kid a Portuguese passport or whatever it proves really difficult. They're like "Did you not just steal this baby from some American woman?"

Aminatou: [Laughs]

Ann: But one of the things that's really interesting is the women who are surrogates are not the ones who are more likely to back out; like it's the couple who's paying her to grow them a baby who are more likely to back out. But, you know, the question of whether they also have a right to have kids that are biologically-connected to them is an interesting one. Other countries allow women to voluntarily be surrogates but if you believe that everyone has a right to have a biologically-related child then you kind of have to believe in paid legal surrogacy. It was a real thing I could not get my head around and I can't figure out how I feel about it.

(30:15)

Aminatou: Yeah, it's crazy. I would love to know a lot of the contract negotiations around that too, right? Because it's like what happens if the baby has defects? What happens if the family backs out? That's nuts.

Ann: Well there were some crazy anecdotes, like there was a guy from abroad who wanted an agency to impregnate like six different women and then he could have his choice based on which fetus looked the best.

Aminatou: What?

Ann: I mean crazy shit. There's also a sort of sub-thread of the story about couples from political families in China who can't violate the one child rule lest it be seen as going against the party using a surrogate in America to be like "Well, we didn't violate the one child rule. We didn't have more then one kid." Which is also crazy. And they refer to that now as political surrogacy.

Aminatou: [Laughs]

Ann: I mean I swear to God this article is full of crazy things.

Aminatou: Okay, sold. Sold. You've sold me on reading about babies. Everything about babies is crazy.

Ann: Whatever. It's just sort of like what part of women's bodies should it be legal to sell? Because you can't buy organs. Like you can rent a uterus but you can't buy a kidney.

Aminatou: Ugh.

Ann: Like that kind of blows my mind.

Aminatou: That's bananas.

Ann: Right.

Aminatou: All of this to say that I would really like to dedicate this episode of the podcast to little baby Arthur Ashton Martin. [Laughs]

Ann: Oh my god, this is our friends' Kate and Brent's son.

Aminatou: Yeah, who is new to us. Little baby Artie I hope that one day you hear this and you just realize how much we love you but also having babies is crazy.

(31:55)

Ann: You know, so it's sort of like become part of my regular life, like the visit and paying respects to a new baby. And it's usually too little for its eyes to even focus and so . . .

Aminatou: [Laughs]

Ann: I'm still trying to get good at it. Like the questions you ask your friend who just had a baby, are you supposed to ask the details of the birth?

Aminatou: Yeah, you're like "When did you first poop after the baby?"

Ann: [Laughs] First post-baby poop is a thing that I've learned is very important.

Aminatou: Yeah, "Your boobs look huge. Are they going to stay that way?" Yeah, all sorts of wild questions.

Ann: Yeah, but it's definitely like an art. You know how you have to learn how to be a guest at a friend's wedding? Now I'm just like wow, babies that came out of my friends' vaginas. That's super-weird. [Laughs]

Aminatou: That's bonkers.

Ann: Yeah. But anyway, baby Arthur. Maybe that's our appresh this week. [Laughs]

Aminatou: Yeah, baby Arthur. Love you baby Arthur. You're so handsome.

Ann: I mean as soon as you learn to focus your eyes more than a foot away you're going to be like a knockout. [Laughs]

Aminatou: You know, it's true. That's what I always feel about especially white babies, I'm like they just look like tiny little burritos the way the . . . [Laughs]

Ann: Are you going to out yourself as thinking white babies are extra cute?

Aminatou: Are you serious? Like 100%. I want a little redhead baby forever and ever and ever.

Ann: Oh my god. Maybe you should get a surrogate.

Aminatou: Everybody's allowed to have . . . uh, yeah Ann, I'm going to get an Irish surrogate to move to America and poop me a baby. That's exactly what I'm doing.

Ann: I just -- I can't. With that phrase I'm not even touching it. Not even touching it.

Aminatou: It's okay.

Ann: This is the point at which we sign off.

Aminatou: It's not racist because I don't have the power.

Ann: I'm getting uncomfortable. [Laughs]

Aminatou: I'm just delirious because I've had no sleep. I guess that maybe on that note we should leave.

Ann: We should leave.

Aminatou: I have 30 minutes to get dressed and do another round of goodbyes.

Ann: Aww.

Aminatou: It's going to be interesting.

Ann: You can do it. And the next time we talk you will be in California. I'm still in London. Woof.

Aminatou: Don't woof. This is a . . .

Ann: I mean it's just . . .

Aminatou: International nomad. You know what, Ann?

Ann: It's lovely. It's just cold.

Aminatou: Exactly. It's lovely. Enjoy it. Oh, you can -- I'm going to text you about what I need to pack for San Francisco because apparently it's cold there too. I don't understand.

Ann: Girl, all of your layers.

Aminatou: Ugh, [0:34:24]. Okay.

Ann: Yeah. We also have a shout-out this week to the Heraty Law Firm run by our dear friend Quinn Heraty and also just like a bang-up lawyer. She's a sponsor of us and a supporter of us and all of our legal needs and we would recommend her to everyone else. It's just heratylaw.com. Heratylaw.com. It's a very shine theory sort of thing. We should do our run-down here. You can follow us on Twitter at @callyrgf, Call Your Girlfriend. We're at callyourgirlfriend.com and you can subscribe on iTunes.

Aminatou: Yeah, and tweet at us your questions or anything you want.

Ann: Oh yeah, or agenda suggestions. We answer all that stuff.

Aminatou: Yeah, we try to. [Laughs]

Ann: Highly responsive.

Aminatou: I love you forever. I'll talk to you soon.

Together: I'll see you on the Internet.

[Clip Starts]

Tina: Ughhhhhh.

Bob: Tina, enough already. Come on.

[Clip Ends]