Office Candy Dish
2/13/15 - We discuss why women should never have a candy dish at work, public radio voice and vocal insecurity, celebrities revolting against the red carpet, and Kanye and Taylor showing a little shine theory. Plus! A period-joke challenge.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Odesza - All We Need ft. Shy Girls (Autograf Remix)
Florence + the Machine - What Kind of Man
Hannah Rad edit of Robyn - Call Your Girlfriend
TRANSCRIPT: OFFICE CANDY DISH
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman. On this week's agenda, women and office housework and cupcakes, public radio voice, vocal fry, and other bullshit that has to do with listening to the voices of women and people of color, the grossest period joke of all time, red carpet revolts, and Kanye and Taylor who are finally friends.
[Theme Song]
Aminatou: Hey Ann, how's it going?
Ann: Ugh, I'm so down to business this week in the best way. It's sort of . . . it sort of feels like February is the real beginning of my year and I'm doing all this shit like getting a new accountant and incorporating myself finally.
Aminatou: Ooh.
Ann: I know. Ladyswagger Inc. Really doing it.
Aminatou: Predictable yet swaggerlicious. Great.
Ann: Well I consulted one of our lawyer friends who will stay nameless because it's probably illegal for her to consult with me on a legal basis when I haven't signed a paper saying she's officially my lawyer.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: But I was like "Are there any downsides to me incorporating as Ladyswagger Inc. as opposed to Ann Friedman Enterprises?" or something like that.
Aminatou: Enterprises. Who are you?
(1:50)
Ann: I mean the worst, and she said basically if you can imagine yourself entering into a tax dispute with the federal government and being called to like a witness stand as Ladyswagger Inc., a representative of, or the CEO of Ladyswagger Inc., then I should go for it. And I was like I would prefer to be in a tax dispute as Ladyswagger Inc.
Aminatou: So my Little Flower Tortilla, Inc. is probably not what I should be looking at incorporating myself.
Ann: I mean I thought about it. I thought about Low Bungalow but it seemed too sweet. I don't know. I don't want to go into a tax dispute as Low Bungalow, Inc.
Aminatou: I am hoping to not go into a tax dispute. There's a letter from the IRS on my coffee table right now and I'm terrified to open it. I'm pretty sure I know what it's about but I'm like I don't want to deal with this right now.
Ann: If you need to send it to Los Angeles I'll open it for you.
Aminatou: I mean we might have to. Yeah, it's like Barack Obama has been trying to play me for three years over this one nitpicky tax issue and I'm like I'm not falling for this.
Ann: Ugh. I mean the list of Obama offenses.
Aminatou: I know! He's always going after me. It's so terrible.
Ann: I mean I was about to make a not funny at all joke about Obama's absolutely horrible treatment of immigrants and it's just not the right venue for that.
Aminatou: Please do, Ann. His horrible treatment of me has really affected me.
Ann: I mean I was going to say I feel like it's just part and parcel of an overall broad, terrible series of policies ranging from detention to, you know, fucking with your tax situation.
Aminatou: I know. I can't wait until we have him on the podcast to discuss. [Laughs]
Ann: I mean Vox, BuzzFeed, obviously we should be next on the list.
Aminatou: Yeah! Did you watch those Vox interviews? Or that Vox interview. I haven't seen the BuzzFeed one yet, but the Vox one, there were some cool graphics. I was distracted by the graphics but they're pretty good.
Ann: I love Ezra's super-serious face. My favorite.
(3:50)
Aminatou: Well, man, I don't know. I think Ezra has a good super-serious face. I did not know about Matt Yglesias's super serious face. Disclosure, we're friend with all these people so it's like -- [Laughs] It's weird but yeah. Also it's really hard to interview the president and have him not play you for a fool. That's what I thought the whole time.
Ann: I mean he has a team of people who are experienced at helping him not get played for a fool and helping you get played for a fool.
Aminatou: I know. I just really miss George Bush right now. I feel like he would give you real answers. You know, like man on the street type answers.
Ann: And then maybe paint your portrait.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Okay, he's a very good artist Ann.
Ann: Hey, I'm not lying. If I were in the position to be a collector I would be snapping up the bathroom portrait so fast.
Aminatou: Ugh, I know, that Putin portrait, so . . . that hits my Venn Diagram on so many levels.
Ann: That was a digression. Tell me about what's happening with you.
Aminatou: I don't know, man. I'm like swamped with work right now so I feel like I've really been into like . . . it's the work game. I'm like you. Q1 is just really hard to get into gear. I feel like I don't start shining until March usually because all of January is just basically like getting my bearings back and I'm like oh, I guess it's the new year.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: And then February is like oh, maybe I should start doing taxes. I don't know, yeah. Q1 is really hard for me. I feel like I've just been working really hard lately but I feel good about it.
Ann: Ugh, we both had the workiest answers to that question.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Listen. God, Dia says the perfect thing about this. She's like "Life isn't all goat roast and ideas festivals." [Laughs] You can't -- sometimes you've got to put the work in.
Ann: I mean let's be real, January kind of was a lot of goat roasts and idea festivals.
Aminatou: I mean, yeah, I'm going on a trip to Palm Springs this weekend and really looking forward to it. I have a couple of really fun side trips planned from now until March so that's like my light at the end of the tunnel of every super-intense work week.
(6:00)
Ann: Yes. Oh my god, also I'm already looking forward to spring because I peeped the Hollywood Bowl calendar and Grace Jones is playing with Future Islands and I was like in what world does this happen? And I'm pre-excited.
Aminatou: Oh my god. [Laughs]
Ann: I feel like maybe you have to come down for that.
Aminatou: I mean sold. Also somebody that we know that shall remain nameless is married to someone who is not good at pop culture and very recently he asked her, he was like "Have you heard of this band, Future Islands?" And I'm still laughing about it.
Ann: I thought you were going to say "Have you heard of this woman Grace Jones?" I don't know which is more egregious.
Aminatou: I mean I feel like he's going to discover Grace Jones in like plus five years.
Ann: [Laughs] Oh my god.
Aminatou: Well, you know, I guess since we're talking about work so much and ladies at work did you read this Sheryl Sandberg plus whoever her ghost writer is all the time -- well I guess he's not a ghost writer, co-writer? The women in office housework piece. I feel like she's done a couple of these and they're pretty good but this one hit a little too close to home for me.
Ann: Ugh, yes, this one about women doing basically the shit work around the office? Taking notes, bringing cupcakes, I forget what else. But there are probably many other things like organizing the charity fun run or whatever else is not . . .
Aminatou: No, totally, right? The emotional labor of being a boss lady at work and doing housework.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: The thing about it that was not surprising but really depressing is if you don't do the work people think that you're an asshole but if you do do the work you still get no benefits from it.
Ann: Right. And then there's this idea too that I think it's not on a lot of male coworkers' radars that women consciously have to opt in or opt out of being this office caregiver type. I remember when I worked on staff at a magazine an illustrator who we published who was a woman in her early 20s sent us all homemade granola bars or something to thank us after we ran her illustration.
Aminatou: Ridiculous.
(8:05)
Ann: And I was like -- through a mouthful of granola bar I was like "Girl should not have done this."
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: And one of my male coworkers was like "What do you mean? This seems like a really nice thing to do." And I was like "I don't know, how many male illustrators that we've published have sent us granola bars and taken the time to do that?" And I know it's slightly different than being on-staff and being a regular caregiver type but that is just to say that it extends to all kinds of work situations.
Aminatou: No, it's true. So when I was graduating college one of my friend's moms gave us all this book called, god, Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office. [Laughs]
Ann: That is a very popular book.
Aminatou: I think it's like Nice Girls, not Good Girls. Yes. Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: And it was all like "Hi, you're 22. Here's some boss lady advice for you before you go on to make copies at a think tank."
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: But the book was really fascinating, right? It was very 101. It's like very cheesy. But I to this day still recommend it because I think it really explains this tension. It was just a list of things you should and shouldn't do. You know, and a lot of it was really contradictory, right? It was like do wear makeup; don't wear too much makeup. All the things you can do. But one piece of advice that it gave -- and this is almost ten years ago and I still remember it crystal clear -- was don't be the office candy dish. Never be the person that has all the candy at her desk.
Ann: That is not a sexual euphemism.
Aminatou: Um, yeah. You know, but I remember that so vividly. And also a thing that my mom told me when I was going off into my first internship, don't learn how to make coffee and then that way you'll never be the coffee person. And it's true, I don't drink coffee, I still don't know how to make it, and I remember my very first job out of college at a D.C. think tank that shall not be named where the first thing that somebody asked me to do was to make them coffee. And I was like "I don't know what to tell you. I'm the only black person here. The optics of this are really problematic."
Ann: [Laughs]
(10:08)
Aminatou: But instead of that I can very rely on the fact that I did not know in fact how to make coffee and I was off of the hook of coffee-making duties from there on out. That's crazy.
Ann: Ugh, shout-out to Mama Sow.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, she be knowing. She knows. She vaccinated us right. She taught us not to make coffee. Ugh, miss you Mama Sow.
Ann: Incredible. I mean I always found -- I was always genuinely conflicted about this though, that I am someone who genuinely likes to have snacks at work for example.
Aminatou: Yes! Oh my god, yes.
Ann: Or who did feel a very nurturing impulse towards people who I worked with who were younger than I was especially. And I also am always wary of advice to women to sort of -- "You've got to be super-tough because men are super-tough." That sort of old-school idea of what it means to be or what it takes to be a woman in leadership, and kind of that directive to wear makeup but not too much makeup. The line between don't be the office candy dish and be cold and mean to your coworkers can sometimes be hard to find.
Aminatou: No, I mean it's really hard to find right? Because here's the thing: our most authentic selves, like we're very giving and caring people, yes.
Ann: Obviously.
Aminatou: We are, but I don't want to be projecting that in the workplace. And so it's this really fine line between being able to say no but still seem like you're a giving and caring person. And I think that a lot of women really have to navigate that, you know?
Ann: Right.
(11:45)
Aminatou: And, you know, the one thing that this piece also gave me so much respect for is working moms. You have housework, you have childcare, and then you have like work-work. That stuff, it is intense. It's really intense and you're expected to be a caregiver in every sphere of your life. It's also very exhausting.
Ann: Right, and I think that as I was saying it's tough when you are a caring person and you're like oh, I want to care for these people who I work with these super long days and I also want to care for my family and my friends and all the people in my non-work life. And much like the equation of housework where the answer is getting dudes to scrub toilets, I feel like this is male-only office bake-off territory.
Aminatou: No, totally. This is why I love all the Sheryl Sandberg advice, right? The last piece was about men who just interrupt and dominate meetings and this . . .
Ann: Mantiruptors you mean?
Aminatou: Her solution is the same. Her solution is men have to step up and speak up and I'm like thank you Sheryl.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: Because I think that that's also the problem with a lot of this advice, right? It's always trying to tell you to navigate all of these different characteristics of your personality and this is actually really cut-and-clear. It's like you should not expect the women to do the office housework at your company. It should be everybody's job to clean up and to bring cupcakes and cookies. I won't lie I never volunteer for that kind of stuff because I never want to be that person but every once in a while I'm like god damn it, I make a fucking great cookie but, you know, can't be that lady. Ugh.
Ann: Right. I mean when you make good cookies the right answer is half for me now, half for me later in the freezer.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I think maybe that's the solution.
Aminatou: I know, right? God, men, so many places where you can step up at work and just use your voice to help other women. Ugh.
Ann: Yeah. Lean into office cupcakes, men.
[Music]
(14:04)
Ann: So another thing that we missed on our hiatus week was public radio voice which is -- I mean how do I want to put this? [Laughs] Maybe the best way to explain public radio voice is with a clip. Maybe Gina can find a clip. But it's the idea that when you say a phrase like public radio voice you think of an old, probably white, probably male guy who has . . . I would say there are two kinds now, either like an Edward R. Murrow old-fashioned kind of aloof newscaster where everything you say sounds detached in a hilarious way, like . . .
[Clip Starts]
Robert Siegel: West-coast hip-hop lost an important voice this week. Long Beach, California native Nate Dogg died Tuesday of complications from multiple strokes. He was 41 years old. Nate Dogg sang on chart-topping rap songs for Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, and 50 Cent.
[Clip Ends]
Ann: Or you have the Ira Glass kind of twee version.
[Clip Starts]
Alex Bloomberg: From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International it's This American Life. And I'm not Ira Glass, I'm Alex Bloomberg, a producer here. I know I sound a lot like Ira but trust me he's away this week.
[Clip Ends]
Ann: So there was an article in BuzzFeed about what it's like to be a radio contributor who was not white, who does not have a cadence of speaking that would fit under the stereotypical rubric of public radio voice, and it sparked a very large Twitter conversation and I think an internal conversation at NPR and other radio outlets and it seems appropriate to talk about it on a podcast where we use our voices.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, you know? And I think it also ties in really neatly with the second segment of that This American Life episode that we were talking about with the Lindy West troll story. The second part of that was Ira Glass calling out vocal fry and up-speak and people who are generally not amenable to having young women speaking on radio and . . .
(16:05)
Ann: Okay, you have to explain what is vocal fry because until I listened to that This American Life episode I had honestly not heard the term before.
Aminatou: Ann, that's so crazy to me because I feel like vocal fry has just been this really intense, hot new linguistic fad. You know, there was like one study with five people in it and somehow all women were afflicted with it. So vocal fry is, you know, a vocal pattern. It is generally attributed to women even though that's bullshit of people who have this low, creaky, vibrating voice. So think Britney Spears without auto-tune. That's vocal fry.
[Clip Starts]
Female: So what is vocal fry exactly?
Female: That's what happens when anyone drops their voice to the lowest register. It tends to fry or crackle or pop. Uhhhh . . .
Female: Vocal fry . . .
[Clip Ends]
Aminatou: You know, but the thing that was really interesting about the Ira Glass vocal fry conversation was him calling out the fact that he has vocal fry because the way that the media portrays it and everybody talks about it it's literally a thing that only afflicts young women and it's a problem. And, you know, like it's some kind of speech disorder. So it was really cool to just have him be like no, 34 female student test subjects, that's not a good sample size for this, but also calling out men who do it.
Ann: Right. And not even calling out; just pointing out as a way of speaking.
Aminatou: Yes, pointing out.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: I don't know. It's a thing that I have been really self-conscious of ever since we started doing this podcast. Listening to myself is really painful and obviously I also get a ton of mail about it. People complain about my voice. People complain about how I speak. And on one hand it's really funny because it's like I literally cannot control the way that words come out of my mouth, like sorry. I will change a lot of things about myself but that's not something I will willingly do. But I think there's a self-consciousness that comes with listening to your voice that's really terrifying.
(18:10)
Ann: I mean it is important for us to listen to this to try to do better. I think that it's important. But it is honestly -- I mean I thought reading my own published words was painful, and listening to this podcast it's like the new one goes up and I steel myself to . . . I have to tell myself I'm listening for audio errors in the same way I read my articles to make sure factual inaccuracy didn't get in in order to get through it. It's awful.
Aminatou: Ann, if I could listen to a version of this podcast that was just your voice and I could just hear myself in my head I would sign up for it 100%.
Ann: Oh my god, that would be a miracle. I feel like I could also just send you my side of the audio which would be hilarious.
Aminatou: I mean, you know, maybe that's how we should start doing it. And the other thing too that I really liked about this whole public radio conversation is how it really focused on race and like for example I did not know that Audie Cornish was black until I met her at the going away party of one Shawnee Hilton. [Laughs]
Ann: Amina.
Aminatou: I was like what?
Ann: Amina.
Aminatou: You have the name of an NPR personality. Yeah, I literally had no idea. I'm not going around Googling NPR people. But then everything started making sense, right? I was like oh, NPR is basically killing all of the shows with people of color on it. RIP Tell Me More and Michel Martin.
Ann: RIP Farai Chideya's show.
Aminatou: No, totally.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: It's also NPR is really interesting because I realize that in our world it's a big deal, right? In the world of asshole media elites. But then when you really start thinking about civilians most people really don't know what NPR is.
Ann: It's true but I think this concept of how you moderate your voice, it's the name of a channel of content on NPR, Code Switch.
(20:00)
Aminatou: Yeah.
Ann: That is it's not just -- I mean yes, it's useful to have this conversation in the context of radio or public radio or podcasts but it actually has a lot to do with if you are in a professional setting how do you feel you need to talk to be taken seriously?
Aminatou: I feel like in English my voice in general is a white voice. That's just the way the ESL gods made that happen. But in French I am very, very, very, very, very conscious of when I do code switch. And, you know, it's something that you notice a lot even with black artists, like Kanye West notoriously has a really serious white voice or as I like to call it his LinkedIn voice.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: And it's very startling, right? He'll be on all these interviews and it's not a big deal, and then I'll hear him on Ellen and I'm like "Is that Kanye?"
Ann: Kanye wants to connect with me?
Aminatou: I'm like I literally cannot tell. I hear it. White people make us do crazy things.
Ann: Right. And there's a little bit of -- there's self-awareness about it too sometimes. I mean there's an interview that one Ira Glass gave about the sort of phenomenon of serious NPR voice. I don't think it was in the context of this more race-oriented public radio voice, hashtag the whole thing. But he said, you know, when we started doing This American Life we deliberately didn't want to have that Edward R. Murrow tone of "Let me report the news in a stilted manner that makes me . . ." You know, that sort of weird cadence. Just because you recognize that that's something you want to push back against in your quirky Saturday morning storytelling show doesn't mean that when someone's reporting from Iraq for example they're able to do so in the same way they would pick up a phone and call home. And I think it's an interesting question too because you do want some sort of professional moderation. I don't want every reporter to talk just like they talk to their mom. They have to convey a certain amount of information. LOL at me saying this on a podcast where we talk just like we talk to each other on the phone. [Laughs]
(22:15)
Aminatou: But that's because that's the conceit of our podcast, Ann. Hello.
Ann: I mean we're geniuses for making that the conceit of our podcast.
Aminatou: We are geniuses. I mean it's just not part of who I am. I think you would have to pay me a lot of money to be able to consistently have white journalism voice I guess?
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: But there's something also really sad about how it's so predictable and it is so racialist.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: It's like when you also start looking at the ethos and the myth of NPR the audience is almost 90% white. The news room is like 77% white. You know, US population is somewhere around there too so it makes me sad but it also makes sense.
Ann: It's also hard to think about how to make a transition to where every different person featured on the radio speaks in a way that's wholly unique to them because you have to deprogram years and years of training for everyone who is on staff or contributes. And I think it's an interesting question to think about how you start to open this up because I don't have the answer.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know, I mean I kind of hinted to this too with code switching in French. The thing that's really fascinating to me is that this is the same criticism that I have of say BBC but also a lot of French radio that I listen to is just how very white it sounds and then you start benchmarking that against audience numbers or whatever and now it starts to make sense why shows like Tell Me More go off the air even though they're excellent programming. It's because they just get siloed into here's people's expectations of what diversity on the radio should be.
Ann: Right.
Together: Surprise! [Laughter]
(24:00)
Aminatou: It's almost like everything is the same! Maybe podcasts will change that. You know, maybe podcasts will change what white public radio voice . . .
Ann: I hope so. I mean there are, for example, some of the very people we just name-checked who are no longer on NPR like Farai Chideya who are doing podcasts and obviously one of our favorite podcasts, The Read, is a perfect example of not giving a shit about decades of white people formal news radio.
Aminatou: I mean that's true. And then now I'm going to do some really depressing research on how most podcasts are also white. [Laughs]
Ann: I know, and mostly run by dudes and the ones that are funded are . . . I just can't. I can't.
[Music and Ads]
(26:25)
Ann: Let's talk about our periods.
Aminatou: Man, I am not on a period right now so I'm very happy. Talk to me about periods. What's going on in the world of periods?
Ann: Well first of all what's going on in the world of my uterus is definitely a period and what's going on on the Internet this week is I noticed a headline on Jezebel which claimed to include a video of the greatest, realest, grossest period joke of all time. So . . .
Aminatou: Whoa, so I saw this headline also and I think somebody tweeted it at me and then they told me exactly how long in the period joke was and I'm like "Listen, homey, I don't have five minutes to give to this joke." So can you explain the joke to me? At the risk of making it not funny can you explain the joke to me?
Ann: So I actually didn't think it was that funny though I did appreciate it.
Aminatou: Ruh-roh.
Ann: It was real and it was gross but I'm not sure it was the greatest. The greatest joke of all time about the female anatomy is Wanda Sykes' detachable pussy and nothing can even come close.
Aminatou: I mean 100% but there's no blood so it doesn't fall in the rubric.
Ann: Fair enough. Fair enough. So I will say that the joke doesn't even begin until like four minutes in so we'll put . . .
Aminatou: Yeah, as my Twitter follower informed me of.
Ann: So we can put the actual minute/second thing in the link summary so none of our dear listeners have to wait through the whole thing. But I will say this. I should note this is a Cameron Esposito joke and it's about how dudes are always saying periods are gross but they really have no idea just how intense and gross they are. And she gives a very real explanation of what it is to get your period which is basically your body is pushing parts of your body outside of your body.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Okay, that's pretty funny.
(28:15)
Ann: Chunks of your body are coming out of your body which I appreciate this insight and framing of periods because it makes . . .
Aminatou: Pretty gnarly.
Ann: Yes, it makes the intensity of what should be mundane by this point make total sense. It's like yes, this happens once a month for your entire -- most of your life, all of your 20s, 30s, teens. Let's just start naming decades here. There's a lot of periods happening.
Aminatou: [Laughs] 40s, maybe 50s.
Ann: Exactly. And you don't really think about the fact you are expelling parts of your body which is why it's so intense. And she makes the point that you could be in a meeting and you're just like yep, just pushing out a chunk of my own body while I sit here and take notes about . . .
Aminatou: Dude, don't you feel that? That's always the worst when you're just trying to live your life and you're very aware of your uterine lining being pushed out into your underwear somewhere.
Ann: Yes, and she compares it to a strawberry, a conventional, non-organic, massive strawberry. So I have to say that I wasn't doubled over my laptop laughing at this but I very much appreciated the insight. Like thank you for giving me a new insight into this actually intense experience that should be mundane by now.
[Clip Starts]
Cameron: My body is bleeding out of my body! My body is smashing my body out of my body using my body! [Laughter] My body is wringing itself out like a hotel washcloth you might use again. Oh, and it doesn't come out in an easy, clean, and pourable substance, so clear. Chunks of my body ar becoming out of my body! Chunks of my body are being smashed out of my body by my body! Sometimes the chunks are so large the only logical thing to do is to pick it up and hold it in your hand just so you can marvel at it.
[Clip Ends]
Ann: And then I was kind of curious about okay, is this really the greatest period joke of all time? I'm going to do some research -- just Google a few random female comedians and period or menstrual. And I found a podcast interview with Chelsea Peretti. She sort of tells a period joke where she talks about measuring her life in periods, like oh yeah, that was three periods ago that I got a dog or whatever.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Which I was amused by. And then the podcast host was laughing, like was actually enjoying her joke, and she kind of cut in on herself and was like "Hey, if there are any aspiring female comedians out there just don't tell any period jokes. Just knock it off. Don't succumb to the temptation to write jokes about your period." And then I wept.
Aminatou: I mean I guess I just never heard a period joke before so I don't know how pervasive they are. That makes me sad. Maybe we should have a period joke contest on Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: Oh my god.
Aminatou: I want to hear the best period joke. There are some really good rape jokes out there and that's fairly taboo but there are some pretty fucking . . .
Ann: I mean Broad City recent reverse-rapism joke.
Aminatou: Totally. Tig Notaro, yeah, Wanda Sykes forever.
Ann: Yes.
(31:50)
Aminatou: Okay. Somebody write us a good period joke. I want to hear a good period joke.
Ann: Tell all the funny women you know to write a fantastic -- let's do like a special episode at some point that's just a strung together series of period jokes.
Aminatou: [Laughs] I mean I thought that's what this was but I see your point.
Ann: I would say it's more of a chunk in the middle of this episode.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Oh my god, chunk of period. That's too real. Too real. I mean I don't know, I feel that we've talked about this enough. I feel that people tolerate our poop talk more than they tolerate our period talk.
Ann: What do you mean tolerate?
Aminatou: Yeah, like people don't like talking about periods. Maybe that's what Chelsea Peretti was hinting at.
Ann: I mean I guess. I couldn't really tell if her implication was it's too expected and therefore not funny, which I think is just wrong. I think you can still make funny jokes about expected topics.
Aminatou: Oh, she's like it's the third rail of . . .
Ann: I couldn't tell if she meant that or if she -- I mean it wasn't really explained. She really just kind of dropped that and went on to talk about something else.
Aminatou: Have you watched her special on Netflix? It's actually pretty wonderful.
Ann: You told me to watch it ages ago and I still have not watched it I confess.
Aminatou: Yeah, it's like delightfully great. I went in with zero expectations and came out just being like I will give you my money next time I can. It's pretty good.
Ann: It made me sad, that's all I have to say. I just don't like it when people tell women not to do something. [Laughs] It's like the end of it.
Aminatou: Yeah, don't tell me -- you're not the boss of me.
Ann: Right, okay. Great. Let's write some period jokes.
[Music]
Aminatou: What else am I reading about? This is a little bit old but since it's award season I feel like it's cool to talk about. Remember my whole rant on how much I hate award season?
Ann: Do I ever.
Aminatou: And like red carpets. There was this delightful tiny article in the New York Times about how certain actresses are revolting and shunning all of the garbage that they have to do on the red carpet.
Ann: Yes, correct.
(34:08)
Aminatou: It's great. Chief in all of this is Julianne Moore who refuses to do the Mani Cam because she's like "Hi, I'm a smart person. Stop talking to me about my goddamn nails." Here's the thing, I feel like I'm about to say something that's not nice and I don't like not being nice about other women but I feel like I just need to get this off of my chest.
Ann: I'm here for you.
Aminatou: Giuliana Rancic, host of the E! red carpet, I want to hold her. I want to have a meeting and just say "Giuliana, you are better than this." Because she is the number one perpetrator of red carpet garbage. It's her and then pretty much everybody on E! So I can't be too mad at her because I get it, it's your job. It's how you pay for your baby's clothes. Whatever. Everybody should make a living.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: But it really . . . it's any time I turn on a red carpet and she's on it I 100% expect she's going to say something.
Ann: Also, question, isn't this why there's a screen actor's guild? Can every woman in the screen actor's guild not band together and be like fuck the Mani Cam or whatever? Opt out?
Aminatou: Ugh, Ann, I have so many questions about why Hollywood people don't organize better but I'm like maybe this is what I'll consult with them for. It's just crazy. Why are you letting paparazzi take pictures of your kids? Why are you doing Mani Cams? Why are you letting them ask you about outfits you're wearing? Don't do it. It's really fascinating, especially specifically this award season where during the Golden Globes so many of the actresses called out the fantastic roles that are for women in TV and film, like I think Maggie Gyllenhaal made a note to that in her speech. And so it's good to see that from the inside there's revolt happening; I just want to see it happen on a larger level. Because yeah, it's like these women, they work really hard and they are professionals but nobody ever sees female actresses as professional as male actors. They're expected to be really chummy with the public and we should know the ins and outs of their lives. It's so crazy when you think about the talent and the actual hard work that they do.
(36:15)
Ann: You don't just have to do your job; you have to also be really good at putting on this public persona that is accessible but also that stands up to zoom-in scrutiny whenever you are in public. Yeah, I just can't.
Aminatou: All of this crap is the reason why people still ask Jennifer Aniston how she feels about Brad Pitt even though that was ten years ago. And it's like actually she's put out a really impressive body of work. Please ask her about that, not about somebody she got divorced from a million years ago. Ugh.
Ann: Right. Oh man, I just had a thought which is women on the red carpet are sometimes at that very moment pushing chunks out of their vaginas.
Aminatou: I mean probably.
Ann: Getting grossed out by this observation, I can tell.
Aminatou: If I'm ever on the red carpet, Ann, you better believe I will talk about my period.
Ann: Much like the tennis pro whose name escapes me now. I love the idea of being like "Eh, I'm not going to chat to E! about my outfit today because I'm pretty bloated because I'm on my period and so I'm not bringing my red carpet A game. Go to hell."
Aminatou: I know. During the -- what was it this weekend, the Grammys or something? Some no-name TV dumb-dumb was interviewing Taylor Swift on the red carpet and she said something like "You're probably going to be going home with a lot of men tonight." [Laughs]
Ann: What? Has she seen Taylor's Instagram?
Aminatou: And Taylor Swift's face was priceless. I will send you the GIF of this. Taylor Swift, she's like "Excuse me, my brand is lady friends right now."
Ann: Right.
(37:48)
Aminatou: And she was like "I will be going home with no men tonight."
Ann: She's like "I'm going to Hawaii with . . .
Aminatou: She's like the number one selling artist in the galaxy right now. Like really, this is what . . . I wonder sometimes if those journalists, these lifestyle people, if they have any shame. Like if they're ashamed and they just do it, or they like literally don't get it.
Ann: And not even do they have shame; do they have Instagram? Does she live in the same world that we live in? I just don't -- ugh.
Aminatou: I know, it's like it's so -- it's so annoying. Ugh, somebody please do something about that.
Ann: Wait, pause, speaking of Taylor major Shine Theory moment at the Grammys this year.
Aminatou: Ugh, Ann, I'm probably going to start crying. [Sighs]
Ann: Deep breath.
Aminatou: I'm ready to talk about this.
Ann: Okay, tell us about the time when two of your favorite humans making music buried their truce. Wait, buried their truce? Call the truce, bury the hatchets.
Aminatou: I mean . . . call the truce, bury . . . [Laughs] I can't wait until I bury a truce with someone. Like bitch, I'm coming for you again.
Ann: [Laughs] Oops.
Aminatou: Well, you know, the Grammys were this weekend and my two favorites Kanye West and Taylor Swift, you know, or water and oil as they're commonly known in my heart, took this fantastic series of pictures together where they were high-fiving. When the Kanye/Taylor incident happened a couple of years ago at the VMAs I was honestly devastated because it's well-documented on this podcast I'm very unreasonable about my love for Kanye West. He's an asshole but he's my asshole.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: I love him and he can do absolutely no wrong.
Ann: You can go to pop culture therapy for that later.
Aminatou: I mean I don't need to. I think we can have a conversation about how it's also white privilege not to like Kanye West.
Ann: Oh my god, I want to have that conversation.
(39:50)
Aminatou: It's true. Like white artists are dicks all the time and somehow it's not a big deal, and then we get one bad egg -- I mean we have a lot of bad eggs. [Laughs] Just whatever. I'm not reasonable Kanye and I'm not ready to be reasonable about him. But seeing those pictures with him and Taylor Swift this weekend and the détente, that was very emotional for me. I forgave two people on the spot that I've been really upset at. I was like if they can do it Israel and Palestine's basically a wrap.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: Also, you know, that whole interaction probably facilitated by Jay-Z who DJed Taylor Swift's birthday party because I remember seeing the pictures of like Beyonce and Jay-Z at Taylor's house and I was like man . . .
Ann: How does Kanye feel about this?
Aminatou: You go to Taylor Swift's birthday but you didn't go to Kanye's wedding? There's some baggage there. But I feel like everybody's grown up and everybody's okay with it and Kanye's now focused on Beck who snatched best album from Beyonce because white people are terrible. [Sighs] It's just, yeah, it's a very emotional moment.
Ann: Although I have to say I was eyes half covered waiting for the Beck iteration of the Macklemore sorry Instagram post.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Like it was like Beck sending a twee carrier pigeon "I'm so sorry" to Beyonce or like I don't even know what sort of thing he would do. But I was kind of relieved that when the press asked him about it he was like "Yeah, Beyonce should've won" and that was the end of it.
Aminatou: Obviously people are unreasonable award shows. It's not like the fucking public votes for Grammys; it's some weird, opaque voter . . . like it's dumb and weird.
Ann: Again Hollywood get it together.
Aminatou: It's almost as if awards don't matter, Ann. [Laughs]
Ann: I mean . . .
Aminatou: That was really funny. But there was this great -- I was watching this clip on TMZ, like people are ambushing Kanye at the airport and they're just like clarify Beck, and he was like "I listen to Beck but he did not deserve that best album." And I was like preach homie.
Ann: This is the most aggressive Beck fans have ever been. Aren't they normally the meek and mild type?
(42:02)
Aminatou: I know. But you know this happens at every award season, right? Races collide where you realize that Beck fans probably don't listen to Beyonce. I wouldn't say that I'm a Beck fan but I'm very aware of his work. I really like that album. But, you know, Beyonce put in the best work this year. But it's okay. It's almost as if awards don't matter, like who cares? But I love that this happens every award show. Like this time it was trending, like who is Beck? Remember when Kanye had that song with our homie Bon Iver? And everybody was like who is Bon Iver?
Ann: Who is Paul McCartney? Who is Beck?
Aminatou: Who he also just pulled Paul McCartney on the map and everybody was like "That Paul McCartney is going to go really far." [Laughs]
Ann: But it's funny . . .
Aminatou: And you just realize that, you know, music audiences are a little segregated but that's cool.
Ann: And I was going to say you said something earlier about award shows being like when races collide and I feel like it's actually, you know, okay so you gave all of your hip-hop awards off-camera or in this separate weird annex broadcast.
Aminatou: Yeah, none of the R&B and rap awards are televised still.
Ann: Yeah. Right, exactly.
Aminatou: Even though that gets the major radio play in this country.
Ann: Exactly. Like in what world is that not . . . I don't know, I feel like there's not enough colliding.
Aminatou: In the white man's world, Ann. That's the world.
Ann: I mean the white tiny alt country Scientology-dominated world.
Aminatou: I know. The Grammys are really weird. All award shows are weird. I was really happy to see little Sam Smith win everything though because you know how I love a striver. But also yeah it's like some dude broke his heart and now he has four Grammys. It's like please, I wish he had broken your heart even more.
Ann: Although can we just say how some beloved teen on Tumblr juxtaposed the Twitter reaction when a few years ago Taylor Swift got up and accepted her bajillion Grammys, and was like -- the one for Trouble I think -- and was like "Hey, thanks to the guy who broke my heart because now I have all these awards." And everyone was like . . . all the One Direction fans were like "screw you" or whatever One Direction fans say when they're mad.
(44:15)
Aminatou: [Laughs] Ann, those fans are very violent.
Ann: I know they are. Sorry for incurring their wrath.
Aminatou: Yeah, please don't bring like Directioneers into our . . . I am more afraid of One D fans than I am of like the Beyhive.
Ann: Wow, big talk.
Aminatou: I know. Can we talk about though how Kanye's legit the CEO of the Beyhive? Like he's always standing up for Beyonce even though she didn't go to his wedding. What's that about?
Ann: I mean he's on the right side of history.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know, I guess he just really supports powerful arts history.
Ann: Mm-hmm, that's what -- I mean that has to be the answer.
Aminatou: I guess, I guess, I guess. Okay. That's incredible. I think it's probably time for us to wrap up. I'm going to go see the 50 Shades movie this weekend so I will report back.
Ann: I'm going to watch the Magic Mike XXL trailer on repeat for 92 minutes or however long the average movie length is.
Aminatou: Ann I really want to give a shout-out to whoever made that poster art. It's the first time I've seen a movie poster I've genuinely been impressed by.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: Just the glean on the corner of the crotch is fantastic.
Ann: Shout-out to crotch glean.
Aminatou: I know. Maybe next time we can talk about why we love Channing Tatum so much and how divisive that is.
Ann: Oh my god, I would love to. I would love nothing more than to talk about Channing Tatum with you on this podcast.
Aminatou: Love you C. Tates.
Ann: Ugh, all right.
Aminatou: You can find us many places on the Internet. You can find us on Twitter at @callyrgf. You can find us on iTunes also. Feel free to leave us a review if you're so inclined.
Ann: Only a good review.
Aminatou: Only good reviews please. No vocal fry talk. And you can also email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. We love hearing from you. See you on the Internet, boo.
Ann: See you on the Internet and on callyourgirlfriend.com, the other thing you forgot to mention. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Oh yeah, duh. Somebody fix this. Just take the wheel.