Emotional Detox
9/12/14 - We discuss digital detoxes, Ferguson fallout and what it takes to get white people to care about police brutality, summer camp for adults, and our ideal retirement situation.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
LINKS
A year-long digital detox
Different rules apply if you’re white
The white mom of a black son gets a rude awakening
On the likelihood of bumping into a police officer
Adult summer camp, not as sexy as it sounds
“we watch an early-sixties blonde seduce a mid-thirties male”
TRANSCRIPT: EMOTIONAL DETOX
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere. I'm Ann Friedman.
Aminatou: And I'm Aminatou Sow.
Ann: On this week's agenda digital detoxes and why they may or may not be kind of bullshit. We're finally going to talk about Ferguson and modern race politics and what it takes to get white people interested in causes like police brutality, adult summer camp because we need a break from all of that, and also maybe a little chat about retirement and awesome older ladies getting theirs.
[Theme Song]
(1:11)
Ann: Anyway, hi boo. Maybe you should tell everyone where you are.
Aminatou: Hi, I am live from Bed-Stuy from our really good friends' Mercy and Ryan's apartment. They're out of town this week. Their space is really awesome. It feels so much like them so even though I miss them I feel like they're here.
Ann: Staying at design-oriented friends' places is the best.
Aminatou: I know, so crucial. I'm going to rob them. Ryan has these Timberlands I have my eye on and I'm definitely going to take them with me. New York is just my power zone. I'm happy here.
Ann: Aww. Do you feel sad that you're coming back to California or is that a loaded question?
Aminatou: I mean I don't feel sad that I'm coming back to California. I'm like an adult person. [Laughs] I'm not going to be a baby about it.
(2:00)
Ann: We all know adults don't get sad ever about anything.
Aminatou: No, just like come on. I'm not sad to go back to California. I'm actually kind of excited because I finally found an apartment in San Francisco.
Ann: Oh my god, the holy grail.
Aminatou: It's going to be good to unpack some boxes.
Ann: I have to start thinking about housewarming gifts for you now.
Aminatou: Uh, I want everything. So the other day I went to West Elm with Cecile, crucial core lady Cecile, and had a meltdown shopping for a couch. I realized that I just never buy anything in stores. I'm such an online shopper and when I told Cecile I was going to buy this couch online she was like that's crazy, let's at least go sit on it.
Ann: That's good advice.
Aminatou: No, I mean right? It's great advice. I'm just like I return everything. If I hate this couch I'm going to return it, like who cares? Online shopper mentality. And the couch looked completely different from the Internet and I was like I'm so glad that we came because then I fell in love with this other thing but then I got really overwhelmed because I don't shop in brick-and-mortar stores and within 20 minutes I needed like a Xanax and just a whiskey because I couldn't handle it anymore. I don't know how people shop inside stores.
Ann: Couch shopping is serious business. Not to make this all about me but I very much missed my couch when I was gone and have been trying to re-commune with it but it's a little warm in Los Angeles right now to get really up into the couch if you know what I mean.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Yeah, there's like a drought happening. The other day in San Francisco it drizzled for like five seconds and people were out in the street talking and communing over it and I was so confused. I was like what's going on? Is it a terrorist attack? What's happening? Why are we all out here? People are like "It's the drought. It's raining a little." And I was like it's a drought? I just thought it never rained in California. [Laughs] I thought that was like a thing so I felt really stupid.
Ann: I have seen it rain in California personally. Not really in the last year but . . .
(4:00)
Aminatou: I know. It rained once when I was in L.A. and Gina apologized to me for the rain. She's like "I'm so sorry you're here and it's raining." I was like L.A. people are weird.
Ann: Our beloved podcast producer Gina Delvac who is a native Angeleno. I can't believe she'd apologizing for rain as a native Angeleno.
Aminatou: It was the funniest thing. She's like "I'm so sorry you're here and it's raining." And it was like I've been here for three weeks and it hasn't rained. That's kind of creepy.
Ann: One day of rain is fine. But can I tell you how good it is to be back? I'm on like a joy tour of Los Angeles right now.
Aminatou: Aww, that's awesome.
Ann: I'm eating all of the things. I'm repopulating my house with plants that died while I was away.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I don't know, I'm walking around beaming. I went to a friend's birthday party last night and knew more than two people in the room and I was like oh my god, I've missed this.
Aminatou: Aww.
Ann: I also saw Purple Rain at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery and everyone was non-ironically dancing and singing along and I was like ugh, I missed the sincerity here.
Aminatou: I know, the sincerity. The California sincerity is like a culture shock for me. That's so funny you saw Purple Rain. I saw fiance of Prince, Oakland pride Sheila E. and she looks amazing.
Ann: I saw her a couple years ago play with Prince at The Forum and she looked amazing then as well. Power couple, Prince and Sheila E.
Aminatou: I know. Just to be a fly on the wall of any Sheila E. and Prince interaction, I would die.
Ann: So I don't know when the last time you saw Purple Rain is but there is a Prince ventriloquism scene with a puppet maybe a third of the way through the movie and it's like the most incredible, weird aspect of that entire film. Like I don't know why when people are like Prince, sex icon, whatever else, even ventriloquism hasn't harmed his rep.
(6:00)
Aminatou: [Laughs] Yeah, I was reading a Prince book a while back. I don't even remember who wrote it. Maybe Ture? Yes, Ture probably. And there's an incredible scene where he plays basketball with Prince and it's like straight out of a Chappelle Show skit. It's just incredible.
Ann: Oh my god, Prince plays basketball?
Aminatou: Yeah, Prince plays basketball but it's like playing basketball with Barack Obama. Who's going to beat you? Nobody. [Laughs] Except Barack Obama looks like he could play basketball. Prince on the other hand, yeah. So Prince dominates the basketball games at his house. It's really funny.
Ann: He needs platform basketball sneakers.
[Clip Starts]
Charlie: How dale you challenge Prince to a game of ball one-on-one? Challenge him. All right? And make sure your people is there to see the game because you might get embarrassed. Trust me.
Male: All right, he beat you in basketball then what happened?
Charlie: After it was all over he took us in the house and served us pancakes. [Laughter]
[Clip Ends]
Aminatou: So wait, talk to me about digital detoxes. I don't know maybe if I dreamt or maybe we put it in the agenda before for CYG but you definitely brought this up and it was like I love that you feel so strongly about this. Talk to me.
Ann: I mean I don't know, there are periodically articles about people being like "Oh, I took a break from the Internet and discovered how amazing my life was." Or there's always -- I think there's the same article that just makes the rounds between the New York Times and the New Yorker and the Atlantic and whatever that's like how taking a break from the computer and walking will give you your best ideas. And it's like the fact that we need to remind people . . . it's just so 101. It's like breathing oxygen is good for you. Exercise and drinking water are good for you. It's like yes, it's really good to not sit hunched over the computer 24/7 or be replying to a million tweets at midnight when you should be reading a book or falling asleep to television or whatever.
(8:03)
Aminatou: No, totally right? I think those articles say so much about the person that they're . . . that's writing them, because I'm not opposed to digital detoxes. I actually do them all the time because I have really Internet-intensive jobs. But again it's just hi, thank you for telling us you were not a well-rounded human and you discovered that maybe you have a little obsessive personality. Like the Internet's not the problem; you're the problem.
Ann: Right. Like they always have the same conclusion. I guess my problem is not with the digital detox as a concept. I too have great ideas when I'm not looking at a computer screen. But the idea that it needs to be sort of talked about and given a formal name, I don't know, it just kind of seems like . . . I don't know, it's boring. I just want editors to stop assigning it.
Aminatou: I know, right? It's like yeah, those people are how the rest of us feel about people who go on juice cleanses and do weird California woo-woo shit.
Ann: Right, yes. I think that this is what I said to you in our agenda email. It's like they totally are the juice cleanse of the Internet. Like yeah, is assessing your diet sometimes a good idea? Totally. But the idea that, you know, oh I'm doing a juice cleanse as a shorthand for that is totally insane.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know, I think obviously everybody has weird addiction things or things that you overindulge in that are bad for you. But again nobody wants to hear you talk about it and a lot of people are obsessed with talking about how they're dealing with their problems.
Ann: I think people do want to hear you talk about it though. Some people do. Like people who are obviously clicking the articles.
Aminatou: I mean I really don't. I really don't want to hear about the fact that maybe you email or tweet too much or you are on a juice cleanse because a lot of times, again, it's like the insight is not profound and it's very self-centered.
(10:05)
Ann: There. Stop writing about your detoxes of all varieties.
Aminatou: Yeah, I mean stop writing about your digital detoxes. You sound like a crazy person.
[Music]
Ann: Do you want to get serious? I feel like we've been sort of kicking our discussion of Ferguson down to the next episode and the next episode because we've both been burned out and have wanted to have a real conversation. I did a little kind of cursory glance at the local St Louis press and a couple of national outlets just to be like oh, where is Ferguson ranking in terms of the headlines these days and it's still around, like places are still writing about sort of casual racial bias and when it comes to the criminal justice system it's sort of like the third, fourth, fifth, sixth day news stories about it and the local news is still writing about the investigation. But it's that familiar feeling of oh, it's not like hashtag trending cable news like the biggest conversation in the country anymore which is bothersome to me.
Aminatou: Probably the thing that was the most sobering and sad about everything about Ferguson is it's like here is the name of another black person that got shot by police that I know. You know, it's Eric Garner, Renisha McBride, Amadou Diallo, like all . . . it's so sad that we know all these names and they're so permanently etched into our consciousness. But, you know, the one thing that was really interesting to me is that Ferguson also happened at the same time as a lot of other insane news stories. The conversation -- you know, obviously because I'm black I care more about this, like clearly. [Laughs] Clearly it matters more to me.
(12:20)
Ann: More to you than your average white person?
Aminatou: Yeah, like . . .
Ann: More than me? [Laughs]
Aminatou: Clearly, but also white people were so obsessed with the fact that that celebrity had just died or they don't know how to talk about racial justice and that was something that was really sad to me.
Ann: Wait, that they were more interested in celebrities than the fact that they don't know how to talk about racial justice?
Aminatou: Yes.
Ann: Yeah, totally. And it's always an interesting question that I have. I don't want to write a white person response article about, you know, incidents of racial injustice that are sort of symptomatic of serious, deep, ongoing problems in American society. I really do struggle with the not wanting to be like another white person weighs in on how it is different for me which is sort of almost as yawn-worthy as digital detox.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: But I also don't want to . . . I am also aware that I have a platform and don't want to ignore it. It's something I think about a lot.
Aminatou: I would definitely enjoy, or I would appreciate more, some more white people talking about this because they just don't. For whatever reason they don't. And silence, you know, you have really good reasons for being silent but your silence is not perceived the same.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: And I think for one that's a problem but also, I don't know, I feel very viscerally upset about this still. I don't know what it is about this that makes me so particularly upset.
Ann: Well, and I should also be clear I don't feel compelled to stay silent on the issue overall. I do share the writing of other people and reporting from other people that I think is valid. It's more just like when it comes time to interject my perspective I just don't know how worthwhile it is in many situations. I don't know, I mean . . .
(14:12)
Aminatou: You always have the best perspective Ann.
Ann: I mean sometimes, but I mean, I don't know, I think there have been some great counterexamples to that. Did you read the piece that Matt Zoller Seitz wrote, who is a white guy, about talking to his white son about racial privilege?
Aminatou: Yes, so good. So good.
Ann: And I thought that was really interesting, the idea of channeling a conversation that white parents do not have to have with their white children through sort of like an oh, but I should have this conversation because parents of boys of color have to have this. Have to have this conversation. I want -- it will never happen -- but someone to go back and interview his son and sort of say "Do you remember having that conversation with your father around the time of Ferguson?" Or if it just kind of passes by because even then he's still talking too delicately about the issue and it's not really real to white people who haven't experienced it firsthand.
Aminatou: Yeah, there was also I think it was on NPR maybe, I don't want to remember this wrong, but there's the white mom who raised the black son and was like "We live in a colorblind society and home and whatever and just never had that conversation with him or real conversations about race." And then he was involved in a police brutality accident and she's like oh.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: This is how the world is for my son? And I remember thinking that was really interesting also.
Ann: No, totally.
Aminatou: Can I ask you a journo journo question? This is nothing to do with race or social justice or whatever.
Ann: Sure.
[Ads]
(17:14)
Aminatou: I'm really curious about what you think about the journalist who got arrested during Ferguson and the coverage of that just from your own journo perspective because I feel differently about it probably as a non-journo. So I'm talking about Ryan J. Riley from Huffington Post and Wes Lowery from the Washington Post who both got arrested at this McDonald's and then kept giving interviews about it and they also became part of the story and there was a whole 36-hour news cycle about oh my god, they're arresting journalists in America. What's happening?
(17:50)
Ann: Well first of all I think it's really hard. I have never sort of been covering like a massive national breaking news story like those guys were where I'm doing it in real-time and writing stories where my sort of perspective is not paramount. You know, where I'm supposed to be sort of giving the lay of the land on the ground and interviewing people who are there and being a conduit for their stories and experiences. Meanwhile sort of tweeting in my voice what I'm seeing around me. That's a really hard balance to strike and I think that even reporters who would maybe tell you objectively "I'm not the center of this story. My arrest or my interaction with police is not the most important thing that happened that day by far," would they be able to tell you that with some distance and perspective? Yes. Would they be able to sort of pause after every tweet and say "Wait a minute, am I making myself too much a part of this story?" I think that's just really, really difficult, like full-stop. No, it was not the most important thing.
The reason why so many people latched onto it in my opinion is there's this sense that journalists are objective people on the scene. Like no one expects to hear a story about a reporter provoking police deliberately in any way even though 90% of the protesters were also not provoking police deliberately. It's sort of like a guaranteed sympathetic figure which is why people love that story. I don't think it's write that there's an assumption that because you're a journalist you're less likely to provoke police than a peaceful protestor.
Aminatou: Yeah. I guess I'm just like selfishly I want you or somebody at CJR to write about it because this is obviously an oversimplification but reporters got arrested all the time during the civil rights movement and nobody made a big deal about it.
Ann: Well . . .
Aminatou: But I think it's a crazy thing that they got arrested. I think it's fine that they processed it. What I thought was insane is the fact that their editors let them do interviews about it and other serious journalists would ask them about it, you know? It's like okay, this thing happened, let's move on, then it was such an intense part of the news cycle. I was like that's a little embarrassing. I am embarrassed for you.
(20:05)
Ann: Right. It's totally on them to decline interviews about their personal experience but I think again where it gets really muddy is a lot of times those interviews are like "We'd like to interview you about what you're seeing on the ground in Ferguson" which is totally legit. Like you want to tell people here is what the people who are protesting are really protesting and here's what they've experienced for years and years and years and here's the demographics of the people protesting that I'm seeing with my own eyes and all this stuff. And then they throw in a question like "Oh, and even you were arrested." In some ways it draws even more attention to just be like "I don't want to talk about that." And I actually haven't seen any television interviews with those particular reporters so I don't know how it went down but not every interview is like come on and talk about your arrest, although there were some like that as well that you can of course decline.
Aminatou: Yeah.
Ann: I think that, you know, it's sometimes really hard to separate what is you channeling what you see and what is you making yourself part of a story you're not really part of.
Aminatou: So I guess what you're saying, journalism, it's complicated. [Laughs]
Ann: Yes, that's what I'm saying.
Aminatou: Okay.
Ann: Also I mean there is another part of me as well, much like the story of that white mom writing about her black son being profiled by police -- I think her son was black or partly black, I don't remember -- but clearly her darker-skinned son being profiled by police.
Aminatou: I don't know how to tell you this Ann, you're black, or partly black black.
Ann: [Laughs] Okay.
Aminatou: I think she said her son was black. That's cool. I'm like trying to eat this taco and talk to you at the same time.
Ann: This explains why you've gotten a little muffled at points, like mouth full of taco.
Aminatou: Trying to snack! It's eleven.
Ann: I understand. But what I was going to say is sort of like one of the reasons why her story was compelling is because it's sort of like oh, I lived under the assumption -- sort of white assumption -- about who police are and what they do and about my son's safety. That was clearly like a gut-level thing I'd internalized growing up as a white person in I'm guessing predominantly white communities. And there's something similar when it's a white reporter, in the case of one of those reporters we were talking about who were arrested, when it's a white reporter coming in for a similar level of harassment as anyone else just sitting in a McDonald's on their phone or whatever. It's this idea that oh, if it can happen to even a white reporter it does serve a little bit of value in saying white people be invested.
(22:40)
Aminatou: No, it's true. When I heard the Huffington Post reporter got arrested I was like that guy wears a suit every day to go work at HuffPo. You can't arrest him. That's crazy.
Ann: Right. And I wish it weren't that you need an example of a white person being unfairly targeted by police or like the son of a white person being brutalized by police in order to get lots of white people interested and invested but that's kind of the case sometimes. And I think this does go back to what I was sort of saying about do I write hello, a white person weighs in about Ferguson? [Laughter] It's like . . .
Aminatou: Did you just do a typing -- mimic typing on your computer right now?
Ann: Totally. I'm doing -- I'm actually sitting on my bed with my laptop asking Carrie Bradshaw rhetorical questions.
Aminatou: Yeah, I could just see you do it. You're like typing, Carrie Bradshaw channeling. That's crazy.
Ann: What can a white girl write about race riots?
Aminatou: Oh my god, that sounds awful.
Ann: I know.
Aminatou: I guess another dimension of the story that's crazy to me is it will never cease to shock me how -- and I guess it's like the opposite for white people -- but how much white people have faith in the police, because I just try to not interface with them at all. And when I was in Boston recently I witnessed like an insane just police brutality accident and it's left me scarred for a long time. Never going back to Boston, still hate the cops, just all of that. So on some level it's also not surprising to me, right? It's like whenever I hear one of these stories my instinct is always like ugh, what are these cops doing? And that's not how everyone feels.
(24:20)
Ann: Totally.
Aminatou: White people are always like yes, the cops, Law & Order. And I'm like yeah, only for some people, not for all of us. Some of us get killed.
Ann: For sure. And I do think that people who have long ingrained biases that say, for example, the police are always a benevolent force for good and justice are the kinds of people who might be swayed by a white mom writing like "I used to be like you. I used to believe the force were only a force for kindness and goodness and whatever else and then this thing happened." Those types of stories where it's not so much saying you are a damn fool if you believe the cops are treating everyone the same everywhere, you know, that doesn't really win many hearts and minds as it were, you know?
Aminatou: No, totally. In Brooklyn, when I still lived in Brooklyn a couple of months ago, I went into a bodega with a friend who had a bicycle and we didn't have anywhere to tie the bike or whatever and I was like I'll stay outside and watch your bike and you can go in and get our fizzy waters. And this cop out of nowhere offered to watch the bikes for us and I remember being so shocked. I was like you would never do that for me. You're obviously doing this for my white dude friend because you don't want his bicycle to get stolen in Bushwick. But yeah, it was like this is -- you know, it was like community policing. I guess it's a real thing. I've just never been on the receiving end of it so it's still shocking and funny to me.
(25:55)
Ann: Right. Our pal Jean Denby who works at NPR had a great series of tweets that I'm sure someone has storified somewhere that were about just pure levels of contact with police. You know, I mean I grew up in a small 95% white town, had zero -- literally zero interactions with police outside of someone coming to class to tell us not to do drugs/how awesome drugs are inadvertently.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: You know, that is literally my only interaction which contrast that with someone who's growing up in a heavily policed urban area for example cops are everywhere all the time. The probability of having negative interaction is just statistically -- it's just statistically more likely.
Aminatou: Yeah, so crazy. Ugh, police. Just the worst. Okay.
Ann: Do we know -- do we have any cops in our friend group?
Aminatou: This conversation makes me sad.
Ann: I was like god, we should . . .
Aminatou: No, Ann, I don't make -- I'm not friends with narcs. It's literally a rule I have, I don't friend police. I'm not even kidding.
Ann: I mean there's also an interesting thing going . . . so this is a little bit of a tangent but I interviewed this woman. I've been doing these small profiles for Cosmopolitan for Latinas, so I've been interviewing for each issue like a rad Latina woman who's doing something cool.
Aminatou: Yes.
Ann: And I interviewed this woman last week for an upcoming profile who started a foundation for Latinas in STEM, in science, technology, engineering, and math. Just for any readers who aren't down with the acronym. [Laughs]
Aminatou: I was like Ann, are you like whitesplaining STEM to me?
Ann: Girl, that was not whitesplaining. That was like remembering how Gina tells us to explain concepts.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, it took like 30 seconds and I was like what? Okay, fine. I was like Ann, you know I know what STEM is right?
(27:50)
Ann: But this woman was telling a story about going into classrooms and saying like "Hey, I'm an engineer at Boeing. I came from the same community you did. I grew up around the block and you could be an engineer too." She was making this point about visibility where she was like kids who grew up here don't know many engineers so I'm the engineer example for them. And I was like "Well what do they say they do want to be, like if you poll them?" And she's like "They all want to be teachers or police officers." And I mean I didn't really ask her about it any further because it was kind of tangential to our conversation about STEM but . . .
Aminatou: Science, technology, engineering, math.
Ann: Right. But you know it struck me as in this fairly low-income, predominantly Latino neighborhood in the San Fernando Valley that a copy would be a coveted career in a classroom of Latino kids. I thought that was really interesting in the context of something like Ferguson and talking about the racial demographics of the police force there.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, it's true. It's like if I met people of color that were cops I would want to befriend them. White cops, no thank you. Just to tie this all back home since you're back in Los Angeles have you been to the LAPD cafeteria near your house?
Ann: Yes I have and it's technically an independent restaurant, right? It's not . . .
Aminatou: I mean it's run by Aramark. [Laughter] It's a cafeteria.
Ann: Explains the quality of that cheese slice on my eggs.
Aminatou: Yeah, I mean it was kind of delicious. I went there with our good friends Zach Stone and Amanda Hess and anecdotally there were a lot of very young Latino cops on that campus and I remember being a little struck by that. And the other thing that was really funny was how the lady wouldn't let us take a selfie in there and she was like "There are a lot of undercover cops here." [Laughter] It's like please, let me -- we still snuck in a selfie. Thanks Zach Stone.
Ann: Maybe we should look to add some non-white cops to our social circle. Just saying. Could be interesting.
(29:55)
Aminatou: Feel free to pioneer that for us.
Ann: I'm going to start hanging out at the cafeteria down the street.
Aminatou: I'm going to be right here. Yeah, I'm going to be right here. You tell me about your cop friends.
[Music]
Aminatou: Man, that was really heavy. Can we talk about something less heavy?
Ann: Sure. Do you want to talk about adult summer camp?
Aminatou: Sure. Did you -- so I have not read Marisa Meltzer's adult summer camp article but I know that she was going to this I think it's like the We Work camp because I was also invited and decided not to go. [Laughs] It just, you know, it just sounds like my nightmare. It's like tech people, summer camp, no. I cannot.
Ann: My question -- I mean I did read the article and I feel you just did a totally serviceable summary of it. But my question was isn't this just like Burning Man with a different aesthetic? You know, digital detox, get away from it all and yeah.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Yeah, I mean absolutely. It's very basic. There's actually a couple of conferences like this. There's another one called . . . I think maybe it's called The Summit? God, I should Google this. Where it's literally tech people go into the wilderness and unplug and they go on hikes and just come out feeling so rejuvenated and make like million dollar deals. It's the funniest thing in the world to me. I was like yeah, this is . . . it's my nightmare. I can't do it.
(31:45)
Ann: I was never like a summer camp kid because my parents weren't rich and I didn't grow up on the coast -- burn -- but . . .
Aminatou: Is this true? I'm not being facetious, is summer camp a rich person thing in America?
Ann: Among people I know who didn't grow up in New York, Boston or D.C. suburbs I don't really know anyone who went to kind of a month-long summer camp. I went to Girl Scout camp for a week or I know people who went to YMCA camp for a couple weeks but the sort of stereotypical go away to camp for the summer, again anecdotally, I don't know, I have not . . .
Aminatou: Wait, people go to camp for a month? Like your parents dump you at camp for a month? I thought this was like a week thing.
Ann: I mean that's what it was for me, I went for like a week. It was miserable. I spent my whole time in the crafts tent and then there was a tornado one year and I never went back.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Oh my god, you would've done so well in like Addams Family Values.
Ann: Oh my god, I was sort of Wednesday Addams. Well I wasn't that dark. Even as a teenager I was never that dark. But yeah I was definitely nerdy.
Aminatou: You're just like a curmudgeon. I love it.
Ann: I was definitely nerdy and definitely not into like horses or hiking. I read a bunch of children's fiction that was all set at summer-long camp. Much like in my head if I had gone to a school in the city, like if I'd gone to summer camp I would've kissed a boy by the time I'd gone to high school or something.
Aminatou: I went to summer camp. I did not kiss a boy.
Ann: You didn't?
Aminatou: No, are you kidding me? Please.
Ann: You're crushing all my childhood fantasies about summer camp.
Aminatou: I didn't have time. I was reading books.
Ann: Wait, did you go to like summer-long camp?
Aminatou: No, I did not go to summer-long camp. I went to week-long camps. My parents were very civilized. We went on fancy trips in the summer. That's why I'm shocked that people dump their kids at summer camp.
Ann: Selfish rich parents, yo.
Aminatou: [Laughs] My parents were not rich. Definitely not rich.
Ann: Well they weren't selfish is what I mean.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, that's funny. Now I really want to read Marisa's article because in my head all I can see is I know St Lucia, the band, was going to play and that's why I was kind of interested in going. But I can just see tech people exchanging SWAG and being like semi-naked. There's probably somebody in an Indian headdress somewhere. Just like that vibe.
(34:14)
Ann: Yes, I know that vibe. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Well there's another aspect of the adult summer camp is that incredible BuzzFeed article about the retirement home in Florida, the super creepy one.
Ann: I mean -- so wait, did you read this article? Be honest.
Aminatou: Oh yeah, no, I read this article the day -- Ann, you know I'm obsessed with retirement and retirees. Please. That's why I'm into personal finance so I can afford my own Shangri-La when I'm old. But also no, it's true. I don't know if you read the Eric Klinenberg book Going Solo which is basically my bible about the rise of single people.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: There's this whole chapter on the rise of retirement homes also and how that's like a brand new phenomena kind of and how especially in America it manifests so weirdly. But that's why I enjoyed the BuzzFeed article because this place in Florida, god, what is it called?
Ann: It's called The Villages.
Aminatou: Yeah, The Villages. So first of all you should do a cursory glance at The Villages because people always write stories about how the old people there all have STDs all the time.
Ann: And there are a lot -- it's like 100,000 people. It's a massive, massive retirement complex.
Aminatou: Yeah, it's so . . . but, you know, I just love this idea of this old people Shangri-La. They're so happy and they're having so much sex and they just do all these activities and you guys are going to live to be really old probably because you're happy but there are some really problematically weird things about it, right? Like how everybody who lives in The Villages is white.
(35:52)
Ann: Yeah, and he kind of gets into -- I mean he doesn't talk about that as much as he talks about there being a sort of burgeoning gay community there which is interesting but not so much about the fact that it's all white. It's like okay, so where are all the rich black people retiring?
Aminatou: Oh, we're not going to tell you so you can write an article about it. [Laughs]
Ann: I mean maybe. Maybe I will. I sort of have this new idea about my dream retirement which is based on my friend Jess who is a friend who lives in London. Her mom -- so her parents split up when she was really young and she's an only child and her mom and several of her mom's friends have pooled their resources and bought property together outside of London and it's sort of like they'll each have their own home on sort of a communal plot of land then there's a plan for when . . . basically for them to move there as they age and then they can share resources for like a healthcare aid or something like that. It's kind of an awesome idea. I feel like it's a sort of little like . . . you know, it's like an alt version of a retirement complex.
Aminatou: No, totally. In the Klinenberg book he talks about this, like in a lot of places in Europe people do this and it's really, really cool. Obviously it's the dream. You just want to live with your ladies and share caftans and retire. Also we're women so we're definitely going to live longer.
Ann: I mean very much so. Talking about your feelings buys you an extra 20 years.
Aminatou: [Laughs] It's like talking about your feelings, having friends, going out of your house. All of those things. You just live happier. I'm already starting with very few fucks so I'm going to be a great 70-year-old.
Ann: That's how you end up on a lap sucking some 50-year-old dude's earlobe and having a reporter write about it.
Aminatou: Yeah, it's like here, let me read it to you. It's like "One night at Red Sauce," also LOL this place is called Red Sauce, "One night at Red Sauce we . . ."
(37:55)
Ann: Is that an Italian restaurant?
Aminatou: It's probably an Italian restaurant. "One night at Red Sauce we watched an early 60s blonde seduce a mid-30s male. She sits on his lap, leans backwards, strokes his hair, and sucks on his earlobe. He asks for the check. We applaud." [Laughs]
Ann: Get it girl.
Aminatou: No, it's great. No, it's greater. Even how some of the women are afraid of some of the cougars, you know, because they're really competitive, I was like this is incredible.
Ann: I mean I guess you're retired and bored. It's like high school all over again, what do you have but to turn all of your conniving social instincts on each other? It's like, I don't know, Shine Theory very relevant to the retired demographic.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, old people need activities like hardcore because otherwise you die. You need an activity. Oh man, Ann, speaking of Shine Theory, today was the US Open final. You know how I love, love, love, love tennis.
Ann: And you went. You saw it. Wait, did you go to the final in person?
Aminatou: Yes, it was so good.
Ann: You're everywhere all the time. I feel like you're like a Zelig-like figure, sorry for the Woody Allen reference, but you're just at the US Open, first row of Beyonce. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Ann, you know how I love tennis. Tennis is really important to me.
Ann: I know.
Aminatou: And it was great because I was like I have plans tonight and Serena was like I also have plans. We're both going to be out of here by 7 p.m. She was great. She like won in 45 minutes. But she played Caroline Wozniacki who is one of her really, really, really, really good friends and, you know, it's like obviously she plays Venus a lot who is her sister but also playing a friend is hard right? But at the end of the game Wozniacki was so great. She said -- she was like "Serena, you played better than I did and . . ." I'm quoting because I actually wrote this on my phone, "You're an inspiration to me on and off the court, you're an unbelievable friend, and you definitely owe me drinks later."
Ann: Aww.
(39:55)
Aminatou: I was like if that's not like Shine Theory amazing -- that's so great.
Ann: I have full-body goosebumps which is hard because it's like 90 degrees in my house right now.
Aminatou: It was so good I was like I've got to write this down. You're just like the best. You're the best lady.
Ann: Well maybe on that note we should just sign off.
Aminatou: Wait, are you in . . . am I going to see you soon?
Ann: Maybe. I mean I'm going to be in San Francisco in October. I'm reading at a couple of events for Lit Quake.
Aminatou: Yeah, no. Every time I see it on your calendar I read it as Clit Quake and it . . .
Ann: I mean we should start a competing event Clit Quake.
Aminatou: [Laughs] So crazy. Anyway.
Ann: Wait, so we should tell people that we're at callyourgirlfriend.com.
Aminatou: Uh, duh. You can find us many places online, at callyourgirlfriend.com, on Twitter at callyrgf, Call Your Girlfriend, and also . . .
Ann: On iTunes.
Aminatou: You can find us on iTunes and feel free to give us a rating.
Ann: Tweet at us and we'll answer some questions next week maybe. I feel like last week's all reader questions kind of absolved us from answering any this week so . . .
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Lady's choice.
Aminatou: Lady's choice.
Ann: Anyway, see you on the Internet boo.
Aminatou: See you on the Internet.