You Know White People
8/15/14 - We discuss a Beyoncé sighting, how to make friends, Pope Francis’s internet, masculine aggression on public transit, baby feminists, black immigration and white perception, plus this week in menstruation.
Transcript below.
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CREDITS
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Beyoncé - Blue
Kelela - Enemy (MA NGUZU Ironsoul Edit)
The Juan MacLean - A Simple Design
Kanye West ft. Big Sean & Jay-Z - Clique
Solar Bears - Forest of Fountains
LINKS
How to make friends as an adult
The pope is so wrong about the internet
A story about defusing hyper-masculine aggression
Awesome baby feminists
Black people, white perception
lol at the phrase “accused of menstruation”
TRANSCRIPT: YOU KNOW WHITE PEOPLE
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere.
Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman and oh my god we have -- we had to whittle down a pretty epic agenda today because there were so many things to talk about but we are going to attempt to discuss this week an IRL Beyonce sighting, how to make friends, why the Pope continues to be wrong about pretty much everything including now the Internet, a story about diffusing hyper-masculine aggression on public transportation, baby feminists, black immigration and white perceptions, plus This Week in Menstruation. I'm very excited.
[Theme Song]
(1:22)
Ann: I'm also very excited to share, for the record, your Beyonce sighting story. Like for posterity for us all to sort of revel in together.
Aminatou: This is so exciting. So yeah, I'm having a really big music week this week. It's really funny. I went to the Beyonce and Jay-Z On the Run tour. I was kind of not looking forward to going to it because I had just seen Beyoncé's Mrs. Carter tour. I am still bitter about Baeghazi and the elevator situation but, you know, when you get really good VIP tickets to Beyonce you're kind of a fool if you say no. And of course . . .
Ann: Ugh, Amina problems.
Aminatou: Ugh, Ann, you know how . . .
(2:08)
Ann: I'm so sick of seeing Beyonce and I got VIP tickets and now I have to go. Ugh. You know I have never seen Beyonce, P.S.
Aminatou: You know that's your own fault but we will fix that. So I go to the On the Run tour. I obviously feel like a fool because you should never doubt the power of Beyonce. She's just amazing. The whole show is great. It's all stuff that you've heard before but oh my god it's so good. I don't really want to talk about Jay-Z. So anyway I'm riding this high like I just saw Beyonce yesterday. I'm so, so, so, so happy and I am at lunch with a coworker and she -- and we walk into this restaurant and I'm just very hangry. I'm trying to get my life together and it's why are we at this really expensive lunch when we get fed great lunch at work? We were trying to get away. But anyway she says something to me to the effect of "I think that's Beyonce," and the first thing I think in my head is like ugh, why are you lying to me?
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: [Laughs] And I turn around and lo and behold it's Beyonce.
Ann: Oh my god, was she bathed in a glow from above?
Aminatou: Ann, she's so beautiful. She's so beautiful. She was holding Blue Ivy who was really, really cute and all I cared about is what is Blue Ivy's foot game?
Ann: Tell me.
Aminatou: She wears really cute shoes. She was just wearing these little really cute baby sneaks with a cool pattern on them and I was like I really want to know where these baby sneakers are from. Beyonce was so chill. She was wearing like a hoodie and skinny jeans and some high-top sneakers and just looking really like a bad-ass mom and just super chill. There were like two -- I want to say like two bodyguards with her but nobody was really mobbing her or acting a fool and I was like I don't know if this is because it's San Francisco and people are crazy but I was also surprised at my own restraint. So yeah, it was great.
(4:14)
Ann: I mean I think most -- people who are nice people, even if they are obsessed with a celebrity, understand that sometimes celebrities just want to each lunch with their daughter or whatever right? Like . . .
Aminatou: This is true but also sometimes we have no shame and we lose our shit.
Ann: I mean right, I guess, but you don't lose your shit. What I'm saying is you're better than other people.
Aminatou: [Laughs] You don't know that. This is Beyonce. Everybody's other people when it comes to Beyonce.
Ann: But this is the ultimate test, right? I feel like Beyonce is the ultimate test of can you be chill when you see a celebrity in public?
Aminatou: This is true. Like just to see a celebrity in the wild living her own life, being a mom, carrying her baby, trying to get some lunch, yeah, no, she looked so cool. I was so struck by that. And then on Friday I also had an impromptu went to see Kanye West at Outside Lands so I'm feeling . . .
Ann: Impromptu.
Aminatou: I know! I hadn't planned on it Ann. What can I say? I have good friends who work in the music biz.
Ann: Also judging by your Instagram photo of the Kanye show you were basically standing underneath his kilt.
Aminatou: Oh we were breathing the same oxygen, you better believe it.
Ann: I have had no such sightings. I've seen just two civilian dudes wearing Pharrell hats or I guess I should say 1980s Vivian Westwood park ranger hats. That's the closest that I've come this week.
Aminatou: [Laughs] I will say this though, my watch the throne family week has been great and kind of restored my faith in San Francisco. It's like oh, San Francisco is not as cool as New York but you know what? These three sightings are going to keep me going for a while.
Ann: Giving you life.
Aminatou: Thank you. As the kids say giving me life.
Ann: I know.
[Music]
(6:34)
Ann: Let's see, I . . . so someone sent us this article. A listener Ashley wrote and asked us how we originally met and fell in love these many years ago.
Aminatou: Oh, such a good story.
Ann: I know, so I figured . . . then someone else sent us an article about how difficult it is to make friends as an adult and I figured maybe we can use ourselves as an object lesson.
Aminatou: Yes, absolutely.
Ann: How to make obsessive friendships as an adult because we were definitely both adults when we met.
Aminatou: Yeah, we were definitely adults. This is -- can I tell the story?
Ann: I mean yes, of course.
Aminatou: Okay. I remember being invited to this Gossip Girl viewing party, Gossip Girl very relevant at the time. Still . . .
Ann: I know, we need to add that caveat every time, what was really happening at the time.
Aminatou: Whatever Ann. Don't denounce Gossip Girl. It's still relevant.
Ann: Later seasons were really bad.
Aminatou: Yeah, but you know what? It's okay. The first season was the best thing and also we have to love it because it's the show that brought us together.
Ann: It's true. So this is what, season two? Three?
Aminatou: You're right, you're right. Probably season two. Our good mutual friend -- well, becoming new to me friend -- Dia Olapade, shout-out, she's kind of the fairy godmother of this friendship, Dia's just the jam. Dia invites me to her house to watch Gossip Girl. I am in a place where I kind of want to make new friends. Important lesson for the person who wants to make adult friends: it takes efforts. And so I agree to go to her house to watch Gossip Girl with all these people I've never met because duh, Gossip Girl is amazing. And I wear my favorite t-shirt that's a homemade Chuck hearts Blaire shirt because, you know, you've got to bring your A-game at the Gossip Girl viewing party. I don't remember really what we talked about. All I know is that you and I had the same reactions at all the parts of the show at the same time and I was like this lady is amazing, I want to be friends with her. And I remember when the show is over vividly walking out going oh, I hope we are all walking to the same place because D.C. is so small and it's like maybe we are all walking distance. And I remember it was raining and you and the other two people that you were with went the opposite way I was going and my heart broke.
(8:55)
[Music]
Ann: I mean I love it because in my head now this is a romantic comedy scene.
Aminatou: Duh.
Ann: It's like raining. You've just met your dream bestie and she's walking the other way.
Aminatou: Yeah, duh, because I did the thing I never do. When I went home I immediately looked up your name from the email, the Gossip Girl email, and I added you on Facebook. I never add people as friends on Facebook because I'm a jerk and I'm like well people will add me. I went to add you on Facebook and as soon as I turned, whatever, the website came up, I saw that I had a pending friend notification from you and I was like [Gasps] everything is great.
Ann: Immediate, immediate. I mean the other thing -- lesson number two about making friends which is like Internet follow-up, crucial. Maybe I should write something where I name the phenomenon by which you share links with someone the day after you have dinner.
Aminatou: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ann: As a way of cementing -- has this already been written? -- a way of cementing your burgeoning relationship.
(9:55)
Aminatou: No, it's just like a huge part of my friend flirting game. It's like hey, here are all these things that I want to read with you. [Laughs]
Ann: I mean exactly. Reading the Internet is your love language.
Aminatou: You know it.
Ann: I've read the Internet for you and sent you links. That's true. Anyway, so then we had an immediate Internet and IRL friendship. We saw each other the following -- two days later wasn't it?
Aminatou: Yeah, I went to watch the movie Obsessed starring Beyonce and Idris Elba for like the fourth time because you and Dia hadn't seen it and wanted to see it and I was like I am playing for keeps.
Ann: We went at like midnight on a school night. Early commitment. Early commitment. So I don't know, I guess I think it obviously helps if you sort of have some friends in common and can bump into people naturally. But also got to say yes to that stuff. Like you've got to go all the way to the other side of town to watch Gossip Girl sometimes if you want to meet great people.
Aminatou: Yeah, we were like in Woodley Park. Never go to Woodley Park.
Ann: Yeah, exactly. Then Obsessed at midnight. See, I've always been behind on the Beyonce curve. That's the other lesson. Like you had already seen Obsessed twice at least.
Aminatou: Ann, three times. It was my fourth watching just to be clear.
Ann: Who's the evil white girl in Obsessed? What's her name?
Aminatou: Ali Larter? Hello?
Ann: Oh my god, wow. Just trying to remember. Anyway, so I just looked up this guide to making friends as an adult.
Aminatou: Yeah, tell me about it.
Ann: And it says things like indulge in some real talk. Slowly up the intensity of a Q&A to create friendly feelings in just 45 minutes. Are you a robot?
Aminatou: This is all wrong. You can't real talk a friend you're trying to seduce. What's wrong with these people?
Ann: I know. You've got to go with the slow reveal.
Aminatou: Yeah! Basically it's just like dating. It's like put all of your best qualities forward. What do you bring to the table? Don't be your asshole self ever.
Ann: Right. Be your best self and slowly introduce the real talk.
(11:50)
Aminatou: Exactly. Very gently.
Ann: Anyway I feel like this guide is just . . . so I remember ages ago, I don't remember if it was like I was taking questions for my newsletter or someone tweeted at me the question how do I not die alone? And I was like . . .
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: This is just the easiest thing to answer ever. The answer is you be the one to call. You just call people or email them or whatever. Don't sit around at home being like "No one's called me." Like those people are die alone people.
Aminatou: That's so crucial because people -- yeah, no, and those people are always the ones that complain about how they can't make friends as adults and I'm like maybe you should be a little more proactive about it.
Ann: It is a little bit of a give-and-take if you meet someone you really like. You have to court. You have to pursue.
Aminatou: Yeah, so what are our tips for making adult friends? Number one, just go to things. You actually have to . . .
Ann: Yes, get out of your house.
Aminatou: You actually have to leave your house. That's important. Go to all -- like take up all the invitations, even the ones to things that you don't want to go to. Like I go to craft parties even though I hate them. I've been to two Burning Man parties last week. Let me tell you, want to light . . .
Ann: Whoa, the truth.
Aminatou: Want to light myself on fire. Got some face painting done, but guess what? Met about 100 people. Two people have real potential. Having lunch with one lady next week. I'm very excited. You actually have to go out of your way and you have to make yourself a little vulnerable.
Ann: Yeah. Also I have totally met some of my greatest friends via the Internet, like friends of friends or people who -- one of my dear friends from D.C. Lindsey Wood sent me a really . . . like a stranger email back when I first moved to D.C. and at the time I wrote for this blog Feministing and my bio said something about how I wasn't excited to be in D.C. and it said I'd gone to college in Missouri. And she emailed me and was like "Hi, I read Feministing and I went to school -- I'm from Missouri and I also hated D.C. for the first two years. We should hang out." And we had like three supremely awkward friend blind dates setup by the Internet before we legit became friends.
(14:02)
Aminatou: That's right. You've got to put that face time in.
Ann: I mean that's the other thing, right? I was waiting for you to get around to put the face time in. Put the face time in.
Aminatou: You do, but . . .
Ann: Also Internet follow-up.
Aminatou: Yes, Internet follow-up is crucial. Also I feel like I'm the luckiest person because a lot of my friend groups are just merging into each other because that's how I like to live my life, so via the Internet.
Ann: That's not luck. That's strategic.
Aminatou: No honestly, right, a lot of my friends have met because it has been delightfully orchestrated. And that's the other thing is sometimes, you know, you've got to pass on the karma. Introduce your friends to your other friends. That is so important and crucial. And yeah, and delightful things will come your way.
Ann: That, the sort of going to hang out with one friend then bringing along one other person is the best way also for people who are kind of shy or kind of dislike big parties to make really good friends. And so if you are a good friend you will also be thinking about who to introduce your good friends to.
Gina: Hey, I have to butt in here for a second. This is Gina Delvac, producer of the show by the way, and uh . . . wait, you didn't think you were the only one eavesdropping did you? Okay. So I just want to say this is exactly how I met Ann and of course I'm so happy that I did. We were both journalists living in L.A. but she was this boss lady editor and I was just making my way into public radio. So our dear friend Sarah Blank introduced in a couple of very low-key successive bar hangouts during which I remember talking about my then-obsession, IUDs. Anyway of course Ann was so funny and so smart. She and Sarah and I shared some horrifying period stories which I will not repeat here. Of course I was friend crushing hard. And one thing led to another. Lucky me, Ann introduced me to Amina and she has also held me so close in URL and IRL situations. So this advice can really work. Your hosts don't lie. I'm here to do a little impromptu endorsement of my own and give a special birthday shout-out to Sarah Blank.
(16:05)
Aminatou: I have an email in my draft box right now that says the subject line is set me up with your friends that I'm going to send to all of you very soon. Well all of you being my IRL friends, saying hey, I'm settling into this weird town. Who do you know here? Please set me up with them. And sometimes you've got to do that too.
Ann: But I also think that being new in some ways also offers this great freedom where you're like well I don't know where we should hang out. You have to pick a restaurant. Show me your world. It's a great little tactic.
Aminatou: Ann, are you saying that you don't use the Yelp app and go who is the duke of this location? [Laughs] Who's the duke of this location and just go there?
Ann: This is a long-standing way Amina and I judge Yelp reviews. If you don't know how a place is, who's the duke? Does the duke look cool? Would you hang out with the duke of whatever location?
Aminatou: Yeah, where else does the duke go?
[Music]
Ann: Okay, now we can talk about how we hate the Pope right?
[Ads]
(18:58)
Aminatou: Like another hallmark of this friendship, we both hate the Pope so much. I love that we fake-love JP2 but this Pope, this Pope is evil and nobody knows.
Ann: I ironically love JP2 in a Midwest grandma way. I don't actually . . . actually I hate him just as much.
Aminatou: I mean duh, we hate him, but the problem is this Pope is beloved by people and I would say people that I consider to be really skeptical and not Catholic and smart people and they're all getting bamboozled by this Pope because every once in a while he'll make Internet pronouncements. Don't fall for it.
Ann: Right. Whereas you and I are like show me the receipts. Which policies have you changed, you know?
Aminatou: Yeah, no. He's so awful. I was like stop talking about Snapchat to make yourself relevant. Like do shit I care about.
(19:49)
Ann: Okay, so this week he issued -- hang on, let me find this. So on Thursday he met with 50,000 German altar servers.
Aminatou: Word up. Word up.
Ann: A stadium's worth of German altar servers. And told them, quote, "Maybe many young people waste too many hours on futile things. Our life is made up of time and time is a gift from God so it is important to be used in good and fruitful actions." And he went on to sort of cite as examples of not good and fruitful actions, quote, "Chatting on the Internet or with smart phones, watching TV soap operas." Ugh, shout-out Gossip Girl. "And using the products of technological progress."
Aminatou: Snapchat. Snapchat shout-out.
Ann: I mean obviously this is kind of a little thing in the scope of the Pope not being great for survivors of sexual assault for example. Like minor, minor point about hating the Pope. But sometimes it's the easiest -- the little stuff that's the easiest to go in on.
Aminatou: Ugh. Also what a hypocrite coming from someone with like 20 Twitters and like four million followers. I see you Pope.
Ann: Yeah. Yeah, it's like please spend your time communicating better. P.S. follow me on Twitter in several languages.
Aminatou: [Laughs] My favorite thing though is how he's like the Internet, it's a gift from God but also use it wisely. Yeah. What is it? It was like a network not of wires but of people. Get out of my face.
Ann: Also my network is people. Even my digital network is people. Like you don't know my network. This is the problem with the fucking Pope. The Pope doesn't know anything about my life.
Aminatou: This is the problem with the Pope. The Pope doesn't know my life, the Ann Friedman story. [Laughs]
Ann: I mean that's basically been my story since I was a kid rolling my eyes in Catholic school, but for real, this idea that . . . I mean obviously there is some stuff on the Internet that is not productive and obviously some television shows, you could maybe say it's "futile." That's such a weird construction but maybe it was mistranslated. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
(22:00)
Aminatou: I don't know. I don't think anything on the Internet or on TV is futile. I think people do things to not get their shit done.
Ann: Right, I mean I also agree with you. My most meaningful relationships were founded and midwifed by the beautiful thing we call the Internet.
Aminatou: Yes Ann, it's a gift from God. Didn't you hear the Pope? I can't hate on everything. His branding game is on lock.
Ann: You can't really do worse than his predecessor Emperor Palpatine. Like you can't possibly.
Aminatou: Everybody hated Benedict because they're like "He's evil!" and I'm like no, he's exactly like what a cartoon -- like a Pope should be.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: Just this evil German guy. And I kind of really appreciated that. He's like I'm really into these Prada slippers. I want to spend all of this money. Also I'm probably gay. I don't have time for this.
Ann: I mean sometimes I think he did like extra evil face makeup and was like extra -- you know, he was really leaning in, you know?
Aminatou: I can't even get into this more otherwise it's going to get too, too, too real.
Ann: Well look, I feel like this is a good transition to this article you wanted to talk about about baby feminists at Wheaton College because it also has a religious angle.
Aminatou: Our good friend Erin Carmone who is just doing the lord's work, LOL, when it comes to writing about reproductive rights went to Wheaton College in Illinois, that's actually a really conservative college. I went to a very religious conservative high school and some of the smart kids from my high school would go to Wheaton. Like that's the Christian smart school. Some of my favorite things. When Jordan Ashley Barney arrived at Wheaton College in Illinois and wanted to join the Christian Feminist Cabinet she asked what the difference was between a Christian feminist and an actual feminist "Because to me," Barney said recently, "I don't think there should be any sort of difference." But when she and co-president Krista Peterson took over they kept Christian in the name. "It makes people less worried," said Barney, meaning less worried about the stigma associated with feminism. Ugh! I just -- I love these girls. They're organizing on their campus. They're also, you know, at Christian schools feminist is . . .
Ann: Good branding.
(24:20)
Aminatou: Yeah, no, feminist is a really, really bad word and I'm so impressed with them and I love them so much. There's such a special place in my heart for little baby feminists on college campuses because I was one of them too. And I'll admit that I'm really biased. I'm like ugh, these girls know exactly what's up. It's not like they're out here reading Tina Fey books and going "I'm a feminist." I was like no, some people actually organize and they know about feminist praxis. I'm so excited. Hashtag gender studies.
Ann: Oh my god.
Aminatou: I just love gender studies ladies.
Ann: Clearly these women were feminists before they got to college. It wasn't like they were converted.
Aminatou: Obviously, but college is where it all starts making sense to you and you get a vocabulary to talk about it and you meet other people like you, especially when you go to crazy Christian high schools like me and probably some of these girls and you get to college and you're like oh my god. Everything just blows your mind.
[Music]
(25:49)
Ann: You know how you sometimes just see random displays of masculine aggression? You know, like the dude who is accidentally someone touches the wheel of his bike and he flips out and everyone's like eh, tip-toeing around the situation on the street.
Aminatou: And he just like Hulks out. [Laughs]
Ann: Right. It's like the next public bro level after sitting with your legs spread open like on public transit. It's like one more notch more aggressive. So my friend Jana Kinsman who's a designer in Chicago, her roommate tweeted this story about how he was on the train in Chicago and it was like . . .
Aminatou: Wait, pause.
Ann: Yes?
Aminatou: The train in Chicago is called the Metra, like Metro with an A?
Ann: Well that's the suburban commuter version.
Aminatou: That is blowing my mind. Somebody's got to change that. Okay, tell me this important story.
Ann: The Metra? I thought you would like that, we're taking the Metra.
Aminatou: We're taking the Metra. I don't know. It's weird.
Ann: Anyway, so he was on the train and it's very, very packed and he says "Pushing and shoving through the line came this six-foot infinity dude from God knows what Bad Company listening Jeep Cherokee driving dimension."
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: Jana's roommate Brent, this guy kind of leans his body back into the dude to sort of push back and the guy obviously doesn't like that and decides to get in his face and so turns around and goes "What?" And Brent looks up at him and goes "You're weird."
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: And he's like do I try to fight him? I'm clearly not big enough. We can't just stand here forever. Is this guy going to punch me? Clearly he wants to punch me. I think that's an important part of the story, the guy is like, you know, I'm just really looking for a fight. So he says "So I did the only thing I could do: the lightest tiniest jump like a toddler when excited about triangles and it gave me just enough lift that my lips landed right on his."
Aminatou: No!
(27:45)
Ann: "The crowd's silence from intense masculinity made the kiss only more audible and without hesitation I sprinted ten feet away just in case."
Aminatou: No!
Ann: "Everyone -- everyone began laughing. I stood briefly watching to see if this dude would pull out like a bazooka or 50 guns or something."
Aminatou: Oh my god.
Ann: "But he just stood there more embarrassed than that one time he openly expressed emotion in his 20s."
Aminatou: This is worse than glitter bombing somebody. Oh my god.
Ann: On one hand I'm sort of like this is incredible. I love this story. All's well that ends well. Basically the guy was just dumbstruck and our hero got away just fine without being punched in the face. But when I read it I was like this could've gone a totally different way, like that guy could've just beat the shit out of you right then and there on the platform.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, my blood pressure is high right now. I'm not finding the happy ending here. That is crazy.
Ann: So I don't know, it ends with him sort of saying like -- he says "So all my bros like me out there I encourage you to do the same because now I know how to ruin every jock and rough dick abroad."
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I mean I don't know, I sort of am like I apreesh but also . . .
Aminatou: But also be careful out there. Don't be out there kissing bros. Oof.
Ann: Use with caution. Use with caution. But I mean the thing that I love most about it is just recognizing that pointless hyper-masculine confrontation that happens in public, we all put up with that.
Aminatou: Seriously, ban men. Just ban men altogether. Awful.
Ann: That is not where I was going with that but okay.
Aminatou: That's where I'm always going.
Ann: Ugh.
Aminatou: What do you feel about this epidemic of people writing about dudes that have their legs wide open on the train?
Ann: I mean it's just funny, right? It's rare that men taking up too much space isn't sort of like scary or violent and it's more just like annoying and kind of hilarious in a do you have cantaloupes for balls kind of way.
Aminatou: No, I know, it's all I can ever think about. I was like this is so funny to me that you have external sex organs and because of that you can't sit straight. [Laughs]
(30:00)
Ann: I mean external genitalia will never not be funny to me. Like it's all just out.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Like the whole thing is ridiculous. I'm just noticing that it's a bigger part of the conversation now, like I hear it over and over again, and 1) I'm kind of sick about hearing about it, but 2) it's real, dudes take up a lot of space IRL and emotionally in a lot of ways. So again not surprising.
Ann: Let's see, speaking of people who take up lots of space, white people.
Aminatou: Ugh, love white people.
Ann: [Laughs] I know. You like white people more than you like men I think, not to make this . . .
Aminatou: Wow Ann. Wow, but true. But true.
Ann: I mean I probably do too at the end of the day if we're talking broad categories here.
Aminatou: I don't know. I feel like you like men more than you like white people.
Ann: Hmm. I mean yeah, it's more complicated. I'm already like oh my god, somebody's going to excerpt this clip when one of us is getting put through the dark side, like Pope Francis's Internet. Someone will pull this clip and use it against us.
Aminatou: Yeah, you know white people.
Ann: Oh my god I'm totally using that from now on when I'm in a Tumblr vortex. I'm like I'm on Pope Francis's Internet. Gotta go be more productive.
Aminatou: [Laughs] You know my favorite thing about watching a movie with you is whenever "white people" -- big scare quotes -- do ridiculous things and you are embarrassed for your entire race of people that makes me laugh a lot.
Ann: I mean it's pretty embarrassing sometimes. I don't know what to tell you. [Laughs]
Aminatou: White woman burden.
Ann: So true. Sometimes you just want to watch a romantic comedy without being embarrassed for white people. It's really hard.
Aminatou: I know. I feel like the Sex and the City movie, you used to not watch that with a straight face.
Ann: I can't believe you just told the world that I even watched that movie.
[Music]
(32:14)
Ann: Okay, but anyway, no, we wanted to talk about this article that our friend Gene Demby wrote which I think might be Call Your Girlfriend's first major media mention that is not an endorsement but sort of a substantive discussion of something we talked about here.
Aminatou: Yeah, we're getting there Ann. We're getting there.
Ann: Oh my god, baby steps. But anyway this article by our pal Gene Demby at NPR is sort of about the way I would say racist attitudes actually change, or sort of the broader population's opinion changes of black people when those people are recent immigrants versus whether they have lived in the country for quite a while.
Aminatou: A.k.a. the story of my life.
Ann: Right. Well and this is the part of our conversation he excerpted where you were talking about the way you're perceived in Europe versus the way you're perceived in America because Americans tend to sort of see, for example, more recent African immigrants as hardworking and full of potential whereas even Barack Obama addresses a group of graduates from the all-male historically black college Morehouse College by saying "We've got no time for excuses."
Aminatou: You know I hate a lot of fake qualms with Barack Obama. I'm a huge fan of the thanks Obama mentality about a lot of things. But the Obamas, both him and Michele, their attitude kind of around respectability politics and black people is something that's really hard for me to stomach. Like I don't know if they're doing it for show. You know, it's like hey, do you have to do this because you're playing this political game and this is what you want to do? But they have both said some just really rather insane things to all black audiences and I think that it's really interesting how they kind of take this very paternalistic tone and attitude when talking to all black audiences. You know, the pull up your pants. You know, like don't grow up to be an artist or a basketball player. Here's what you can do. And that is really shocking to me coming from people that I -- you know, I consider them to be progressive and it just goes to show just respectability politics, nobody's immune from them.
(34:25)
Ann: And Gene sets up a contrast where just a couple of weeks later Obama was addressing a bunch of young African leaders who traveled to D.C. which, callback, our friend Dia Olapadik covered for the New Yorker.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, so good. They just parachute all these African leaders who by the way are great and not impressed with America. That's like my favorite thing about all of them. They're like what, your country has no infrastructure? What's going on here? [Laughs]
Ann: Right. And so to them Obama says "I believe in you. I believe in every one of you who are doing just extraordinary things."
Aminatou: Ugh!
Ann: Which is great but also like . . .
Aminatou: I know, right? But that's not the message he has when he goes to Morehouse and that's so . . .
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: You know, to use your favorite college graduate word it's so problematic.
Ann: I don't know, and I think we've both probably read lots of articles about race and how it's lived and people's perception and this was a real . . . I don't know, this was a real eye-opener for me.
Aminatou: Yeah, no, it's really good. I think it was last year Ta-Nehisi Coates spent a couple of weeks in France and wrote about it on his blog. I'm pretty sure it was last summer. And that series is completely eye-opening and wonderful because he's basically this African-American guy living in Paris and he's completely in love with Paris and he's just living like an X-Man. The whole thing is beautifully written and great. But for me it was really hard to read because that's the complete opposite of my experience, you know?
Ann: Right.
(36:00)
Aminatou: And it was really interesting trading notes with him about how we're both perceived in our respective places. So, you know, if you haven't read that I'd definitely go back and check it out. It's really good.
[Music]
Ann: Maybe it's time for This Week in Menstruation?
Aminatou: Oh my god. So I know you wanted to talk about one thing in This Week in Menstruation but I found an email from you that was like do you get drunk faster if you're on your period? I want to discuss this, like where is that from?
Ann: Obviously I have no memory of sending you that email. [Laughter]
Aminatou: Definitely search your inbox for drunken period.
Ann: I have an Internet degree in medicine level theory that I get drunk faster when I have my period. Like somehow my uterine lining has been absorbing all the booze and once it's gone I just get drunk really fast. It makes no sense. It makes no sense.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Ann: I think it's probably because I'm taking lots of Ibuprofen and so my blood is thin or something. Like I think it's sort of a . . .
Aminatou: I'm just generally not sold on drunkenness science because I don't understand how I can generally drink an entire bottle of wine a night watching SUV and I'm fine but I'll have one whiskey in public and I'm dancing on a table. Like I don't know the science of that, so if you want to come be the Call Your Girlfriend doctor and answer all of this for us please do.
Ann: Yeah, we were discussing this. We kind of need an actual human to ask these questions to. We just sit around and speculate and then end the segment. [Laughs]
(38:04)
Aminatou: Yeah.
Ann: Maybe we should consult a doctor.
Aminatou: We both have degrees in Gray's Anatomy, you know, like level one and two.
Ann: We need a CYG OBGYN.
Aminatou: CYG MD, CYG OBGYN, CYG allergist, like I'll take everything. [Laughs]
Ann: And an attorney while we're at it.
Aminatou: Yeah. So wait, are you on your period right now? What's going on?
Ann: I am not but the Guardian ran this article last week that was ten sexist scenarios women deal with at work and it was sort of like -- I mean right? It's like the idea that you can boil it down to scenarios. But number four is being accused of menstruation when voicing a firm opinion.
Aminatou: [Laughs] Are you on the rag?
Ann: So the quote -- the quote in that section is, quote, "My colleague had to chase up someone in another department for not meeting a deadline for paperwork to be submitted. When she went to speak with him about it his response was is it your time of the month?"
Aminatou: [Laughs] I don't understand how people -- well people, hashtag men, can say that in a serious way. That's so weird.
Ann: I mean it seemed also pretty outdated to me. Obviously I think there are lots of bold-faced sexist things in the workplace that are not outdated but that was one where oh, she must be on her period. Was the other attorney in question like a 17-year-old Doogie Howser style . . .
Aminatou: Oh my god, yeah, no, if somebody says that to me I will period all over their desk at work.
Ann: That should be the punishment.
Aminatou: That's ridiculous. That should be your punishment. It's like hi, here's us. You know, I have long . . .
Ann: You will know. If you want to know when I'm on my period I'll let you know.
(39:50)
Aminatou: Yeah, I'll let you know. Like here's my period on your chair. What's up? You know how my long-standing desire to have an all lady terrorist group called Toxic Shock Syndrome, basically going after street harassers, but I feel like they could also go after assholes at work.
Ann: For sure. I feel like this guy is just a street harasser who's been domesticated.
Aminatou: I know. It's just like if somebody says that to you you should be able to shoot them with a bloody tampon and just go yes, I am in fact on my period.
Ann: Yep, like do you really -- were you prepared for the answer? You can't handle the truth.
[Clip Starts]
Male: You want answers?
Male: I think I'm entitled.
Male: You want answers?
Male: I want the truth.
Male: You can't handle the truth!
[Clip Ends]
Aminatou: Have you seen some of these videos where people just take out their tampons and throw them at people? There's a couple on the Internet and they're great. Like how fed up do you have to be as a lady that you're like I'm about to hit this asshole with my tampon?
Ann: I mean Gina please find us an audio clip of a male reaction when a woman takes out her tampon and hits him with it.
Aminatou: [Laughs]
Gina: No, no, that's definitely not going to happen. I love our listeners too much and if you love us back subscribe to Call Your Girlfriend on iTunes. You can also follow us on Twitter at @callyrgf and find all of our past shows at callyourgirlfriend.com where we have links to the articles we talked about and music that we play.
Ann: All right, well I'll see you on Pope Francis's Internet.
Aminatou: Oh my god, I hope to never see you on Pope Francis's Internet. [Laughter]