The Fraud is Iconic
11/1/19 - A very political and newsy episode inspired by our visit to Washington, DC in which we discuss:
Giuliani's butt dials
Who is speaking truth to power and who is rewriting history to spiff up their image (looking at you former DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen)
Katie Hill's departure from Congress
Drake's birthday
The Democratic candidates' corny tendencies
The FTC investigation into cult skincare brand Sunday Riley faking online reviews
Transcript below.
Listen on Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | Overcast | Pocket Casts | Spotify.
CREDITS
Episode image by Clarissa Villondo for the Bentzen Ball
Producer: Gina Delvac
Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
Theme song: Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn
Composer: Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.
Associate Producer: Jordan Bailey
Visual Creative Director: Kenesha Sneed
Merch Director: Caroline Knowles
Editorial Assistant: Laura Bertocci
Design Assistant: Brijae Morris
Ad sales: Midroll
LINKS
Vintage villain fraud: Giuliani’s butt dialing
Nancy Pelosi celebrates this photo but let’s not forget how tepidly she has tread on impeachment
AOC celebrated for grilling Zuckerberg aka doing her job
CNN celebrates ‘the Badasses’ as impeachment heroes, overlooks all the other members of Congress, particularly women of color, who have been taking heat for months
Kirstjen Nielsen Wants the World to Think She ‘Spoke Truth to Power’
Katie Hill is resigning from Congress
Drake is so corny, but we’re glad he had a happy birthday
Meanwhile, Adele is glowing
Beto’s sweaty time in Congress
Skin care fraud: FTC calls out Sunday Riley for fake reviews
FTC press releases for all your consumer protection news
TRANSCRIPT: THE FRAUD IS ICONIC
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(0:45)
Aminatou: Hey, it's Aminatou and Ann!
Ann: This week we are sharing with you some excerpts from our recent live show in Washington, D.C. It is a super newsy and political chat in vintage CYG conversational fashion.
Aminatou: We love a vintage CYG. [Laughs]
Ann: A vintage CYG moment.
Aminatou: Well one note before we start, the show definitely happened before you're listening to it and we talk about California congresswoman Katie Hill. In the less than week since we recorded this episode she has resigned from Congress. We'll get into that complicated story in just a few minutes.
Ann: But for now grab some Skittles and pretend you're hanging out with us live.
Aminatou: And thanks to everyone who came out to see us IRL this year in Austin, Denver, Toronto, Detroit, and D.C. Hope to see you again on the road next year.
[Show Begins]
Aminatou: Welcome to Call Your Girlfriend.
Ann: A podcast for long-distance besties everywhere and here in Washington, D.C. [Cheering]
Aminatou: I'm Aminatou Sow.
Ann: And I'm Ann Friedman, and on our agenda tonight the people who are really speaking truth to power and the people who are trying to rewrite history. The candidates ranked by their level of corniness. [Laughter] Democratic candidates, we should've been clear. And how to spot a fake beauty review. [Cheering]
[Theme Song]
Gina: I'll see you later.
(2:35)
Ann: So the phrase butt dial being in the news recently has been a source of so much pleasure. There was a BBC headline that was like "Butt Dial" in air-quotes but them it also led me to see some new like news photos that accompany this story in a funnier light because obviously they don't have photos of Rudy Giuliani's butt coming down on a cell phone. And so the art is always like [Laughter] him with a phone to his face and I'm just like the whole world is calling Rudy Giuliani a buttface right now and I love it. [Laughter] Just I don't know, I take the most infantile pleasure in photos paired with headlines like this.
Aminatou: I know. Also one of these people that's been in your consciousness for so long and you're like ugh, you were evil when I was a kid. You're evil now. I hope you go to jail, fingers crossed. But truly it's just names that I hate that we all know and we know him, but the fraud is iconic so it's fine. It's fine. [Laughter]
Ann: I mean too iconic. That's kind of the issue. I also realized reading up this is not the first time he has butt dialed this reporter. It's not even like the first butt dial of consequence. It's not the first butt dial where he's like "Give us all the money." Like it's really this is a repeat offense with this one reporter and I'm like . . .
(4:00)
Aminatou: Do you think it's an intentional butt dial? Like he's just -- you know what I'm saying?
Ann: He's crying for help?
Aminatou: Yes. I just think that, you know, in the many ways your body can touch the phone and call someone it would be remarkable that you call the same person multiple times.
Ann: I don't know. Anyway, I mean who -- who is the person that you're most likely to butt dial?
Aminatou: So I butt dialed someone this week actually. Well it was mostly -- it was an elbow dial and I didn't know and I was doing work and I just heard my phone just saying like "Who is this? Who is this? Who is this?" [Laughter] And I freaked out in my tiny apartment. And I had called the lady at my dentist so . . . [Laughter] It's fine. I'm sorry to this woman.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: It's fine. It's fine.
Ann: Well I feel like it's always -- like my phone, it does whoever is alphabetically first and it's obviously . . . you're up there but you are not alphabetically number one. I could definitely be okay with butt dialing you frequently. You could listen to a three-minute voicemail of what's happening at most points in my life and I would not die, right? Like it would be okay.
Aminatou: I'm not your number one person you butt dial which is not hurting my feelings but I'm processing. [Laughter]
Ann: Well it is how I know -- wow. My butt is not making choices about this. [Laughter]
Aminatou: Okay.
Ann: What else is happening?
Ann: Go to jail, this man.
Ann: I was saying earlier that I always hear his voice in Kathleen Hanna, "Giuliani!" Like a really high-pitched. Anyway, maybe it's just me. Go on.
Aminatou: Well, you know, the thing about this -- it's funny. It's like all of these vintage bad people. [Laughter] You know what I'm talking about. You know, the other thing that is so fascinating about this news cycle, again, it's just that it's just these -- yeah, it's like people that are always around, always doing like questionable things. And so it's also really interesting to watch history get rewritten as it's happening which time doesn't mean anything in this administration. And so I have been thinking a lot about this Nancy Pelosi photo that everyone was like "Yes girl"-ing about. Hold your woo. [Laughter]
(6:15)
Because this is one of these moments to me that is classic like political frustration where we're supposed to be really excited that she's standing. You know, she's pointing her finger at Ivanka's dad. The other men are all ashamed. [Laughter] I think I was on Twitter as this was unfolding so I actually watched whoever runs that @nancypelosi or @speaker or whatever change her header photo to this because it's supposed to be this yes moment.
And I'm like you know, I'm old enough that I remember that even a couple weeks ago [Laughter] you were even telling, hmm, women of color who are your colleagues that, you know, this is not how politics works. You're not supposed to do this. And that is very frustrating to me because the hypocrisy jumped out. I think it's also like a rewriting of the fact that hmm, mere weeks ago Nancy Pelosi was not . . . she wasn't sure about whether impeachment was a thing or not. This has been the span of like what, four weeks? Not even.
And so it's just -- it's interesting to me to watch all of this happen. And then I'm also remembering this terrible CNN headline that happened a couple of weeks ago where I was truly shocked where there was this big story on CNN about the five freshmen congressmen who are changing history by becoming the leaders on impeachment. And literally I'm like who are these people? [Laughter] I have never heard of these five women and I am dialed in. Obviously I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek but I think that when I think about the women who have been called the squad and all of the heat that they take for always being first and for shaking the table it's just interesting to see how that gets whitewashed in real-time. And so these five women, they also have a nickname. What's their group chat called?
(8:10)
Ann: You're going to make me say it?
Aminatou: Yes, I'm going to make you say it.
Ann: Badasses?
Aminatou: You know, like squad is also not a great name but I'm not responsible for that branding so . . .
Ann: We're not responsible for any of this branding, let's be clear.
Aminatou: We're not responsible for any of this branding. But I just think -- it's like the way the media does these stories is really . . . I keep saying the word interesting because that's my Midwest, nice way of not wanting to say what I want to say but it is shady.
Ann: Yeah. Well I think there is something going on too which is that the people who were right all along that high crimes are happening were dismissed in the early days -- many of them women of color -- were dismissed as sort of being outrageous or premature. It bears mentioning that like Maxine Waters took so much heat for this March 2017 tweet. [Applause]
But this crew, the heavily air quoted "badasses", are featured because essentially they came around late. [Laughter] The reward -- the award they're getting is like congratulations, you're years late. And it's one of those things where I'm like I guess I'm happy you're here now. It's like also how I feel about that Pelosi photo. I'm like yeah, I would rather have you yelling than not but it's hard for me to feel super, super excited about the radical potential that this holds. Like if you come around to something after everyone else has already come around to it it's like okay, cool, no risk in that. No extension of yourself in that.
Aminatou: Right. I mean there's no skin in the game. It's really damaging for a lot of reasons, because their colleagues of color just take a lot of heat. They get a lot of death threats. People are often telling them that they're doing amateur hour. It's like what are you doing? And it turns out that those women are always too early according to the people who make the rules and then, you know, people who are in the bad-ass group chat, they're always on time. And so that's a scam I can't abide by. It's interesting.
(10:10)
Ann: Well and it's also . . .
Aminatou: My favorite word. [Laughter]
Ann: I feel like you really are speaking my Midwestern language, like that is 100% if you don't like what someone's shirt looks like or maybe fascism is a foot in the land, it's interesting. It's really like it's an all-purpose . . .
Aminatou: Like is it good or is it bad? It's interesting.
Ann: Yeah. [Laughs]
Aminatou: I'm processing.
Ann: Right.
Aminatou: So yeah.
Ann: There's also something about specifically that Pelosi photo. It made me think a lot about the politics of who gets memed as well and how. And I thought about this as well with that AOC questioning Mark Zuckerberg clip and then the resorting Pornhub meme that circulated which we did not -- whatever, just do a Google. And, you know, essentially she was doing her job which is using her platform. Knowing that he wasn't really going to give a substantive answer to what she was asking she was using the questions as a form of elevating certain issues relating to Facebook and it was great and I loved seeing her do that. And I -- you know, I hope that every member of Congress who gets a chance to is bringing that same energy, that high energy.
Aminatou: Whew, are they bringing the high energy? I am not seeing that.
Ann: You didn't think she was bringing the high energy?
Aminatou: Oh no, AOC always bringing high energy. I'm just saying the other people on the committee could be more energetic.
Ann: Sure. [Laughter]
Aminatou: I feel very low-energy today. I'm just like low-energy Jeb Bush over here. [Laughter]
Ann: And I keep saying you're not Jebbing, you're doing great.
Aminatou: I be watching those hearings. There's a lot of low energy happening.
(11:45)
Ann: Right. So I guess what I'm trying to say is I love it. I love her getting recognition for doing her job. It feels sort of like that Pelosi photo where I'm like yeah, you're doing your job. Great. It doesn't feel like a big watershed moment. And I guess people who aren't normally watching C-SPAN are paying attention which I'm like great, more C-SPAN memes please. Is this how we fix democracy? Maybe. I don't know.
Aminatou: Is this how we fix C-SPAN? Just memes? [Laughter]
Ann: Both and. Oh my god, win/win. A fix for democracy and C-SPAN.
Aminatou: C-SPAN, call us. Let's move on to other interesting things.
Ann: Spoiler, that's how every segment ends tonight.
Aminatou: Spoiler.
Ann: It's interesting.
Aminatou: Another very interesting thing that is happening is people are leaving their bad White House jobs, and by leaving I mean a lot of times they're getting pushed out. I'm like this is the only way you're leaving this ship, someone is literally pushing you out.
Ann: Like you can't even tell us with a straight face that you quit. That is the . . .
Aminatou: And but also they think that we don't remember that they're responsible for caging children or just saying racist things every day. They think that we don't know what their jobs were. The reason that this shakes me a little bit, this Kirstjen Nielsen thing, is because . . .
Ann: Wait, back up, what's the thing?
Aminatou: Um, well, you know, it's her now speaking at feminist empowerment conferences I guess.
Ann: Heavy air quote on the feminist.
Aminatou: This the thing that we're doing -- yes. This is someone who's not ashamed to stand on a stage and really rewrite the history of what they did. It's really awful because I think that they understand something correctly. It's that if we don't hold people accountable and they have seen us not hold people accountable you do just get to be in public and not face any consequences for the work that you did. So it's really frustrating to me that this is a path that one can take from having the kind of job that she had.
Ann: Right. It's also interesting to me . . .
Aminatou: Interesting. [Laughs]
Ann: Interesting. Wow, I do it subconsciously. Like I don't even . . .
Aminatou: You're actually Midwestern.
Ann: Yeah. I mean you're honorary.
Aminatou: Thanks.
(13:48)
Ann: That this conference is called Most Powerful Women, and yet she's onstage -- I want to read the quote -- it's "I don't regret enforcing the law because I took an oath to do that." She claims she simply wanted to, quote, "enforce the law," not separate families. Even though her signature is literally on memos being like guess what? Family separation is an active strategy that we are undertaking to deter people from migrating here. And so for me it's really interesting, this dichotomy, the fact that she is on the stage like "I am one of the most powerful women" and then at the same time being like "I could do nothing." [Laughter] "It was my job. I was following orders." You know, I really am like you need to make people like this choose.
And I feel like this whenever I hear -- I mean this is a trick that her ex-boss pulls all the time, right? Of saying "Listen, I'm the victim here." Or "Listen, I don't really have as much power as you think." And you're literally one of the most powerful people in the world. You're one of the most powerful people in a very powerful administration doing a lot of harm.
So I really like watching this pattern of people, and I think that this extends outside of this administration too, failing to step into the power they have to do good or to do harm. It really bothers me.
Aminatou: Right. You always get to blame someone else. And you see this with almost every issue. It's never someone's fault that there's not diversity inclusion in the workplace. It's never someone's fault that the policies we have are displacing people, literally. But like you said it's a really neat trick that powerful people get to do.
Ann: You're like "I just signed the memos and stood in front of the press and defended it and attended a lot of meetings okaying it."
Aminatou: But it's -- I don't have the power to change this.
Ann: [Laughs] Yeah.
Aminatou: So, you know, fuck Fortune Magazine. That's how I feel about that.
Ann: Okay, well this is actually along the same lines in terms of recognizing the power that you have in a situation. We want to talk about Katie Hill which this story is unfolding as we speak. Gina was showing us new developments moments before we came onstage so we might not be 100% up to speed. But we also want to have Gina join us onstage to talk about this.
(16:08)
Aminatou: Yes. [Cheering]
Ann: So yeah, so what is the summary on Katie Hill? I feel ever more confused but . . .
Aminatou: Hot mess.
Ann: Hot mess.
Gina: Well Amina you were saying earlier because we're both huge fans of Reddit relationships that this is a key like "Am I the asshole?" situation. And as you said everyone sucks.
Aminatou: Everyone sucks here. Everyone sucks here. r/AmITheAsshole.
Gina: So a few things are happening at once. Katie Hill is in the midst of a messy divorce with her husband whom she has publicly called abusive. She also admits to having had an affair with a female campaign staffer. She's our first openly bisexual member of Congress which is why I'm here as official bi commentator. So she's out as bi -- no biggie.
Aminatou: Hot, love it.
Gina: We love it. Love to see it.
Aminatou: Love to see it.
Gina: But meanwhile she's like -- presumably, unclear, there's allegations of a thrupple happening between this campaign staffer . . .
Ann: Also that's just a -- the allegation part comes because it was a campaign staffer. If she were just in a thrupple it'd be like . . .
Aminatou: That's cool.
Ann: Nothing word alleging, you know?
Gina: Right. Whatever consenting adults want to get up to, right? It's cool.
Ann: I just want to clarify it's about the campaign staffer part.
Gina: Right, totally. It might've been a sex scandal. So it's like important -- let's disentangle a bit. So it's important to keep in mind that these allegations first cropped up on Red State, a conservative Breitbart-esque website. So yeah, Hill was apparently in this thrupple. The person involved was a woman who she was her boss and apparently they leaked a nude photo of Katie Hill hitting a bong and she's standing up naked.
Aminatou: Classic revenge porn.
(17:50)
Gina: The staffer is there and some kind of complicated situation is unfolding which again consenting adults. And it seems that the images were released by the husband in an act of revenge porn, the ex. And the new new is that she is also alleged to have had an affair with a male campaign -- not campaign staffer, a congressional staffer. So after she broke up with the campaign staffer she got together with this guy.
Aminatou: Millennials in office, love to see it. Love to see it. [Laughter]
Gina: The piece to interrogate here is sort of the money and power questions.
Aminatou: Right, and also can people hold multiple ideas right? Revenge porn is bad. No matter what the circumstance of how it unfolds it is awful and it's awful that she's going through that and the person who leaked the photos should be prosecuted. Like that is despicable no matter what the circumstances. [Applause]
Gina: And to be clear it's a crime.
Aminatou: Right.
Gina: In both California and D.C.
Aminatou: 100% awful shit. And at the same time -- because I think the reason that I think about this story a lot is because people don't quite know how to talk about it and the media also doesn't know how to talk about it. There's just an if you talk about it is it bad for women? Is it bad for sex? And are you a conservative bad person also talking about it? Or is it possible to say that thing that happened to her is bad but also talking about the complicated dynamic of office relationships, especially in this context where one of those relationships is illegal in the context that it happened. And also thinking about how you deploy your own power. Katie Hill is someone who has more power than a lot of the people that's she's alleged to have been with and I think that that is an important thing to talk about especially in this moment that we're in right now historically of these complicated dynamics. Like power really affects the way we feel about ourselves. It affects the way we feel about the way sexual violence is deployed across society essentially. And so I think that you can hold more than one idea at the same time and we should talk about it.
(20:10)
Ann: Right. This idea that even if a relationship is consensual and even if -- maybe even when it's going well both parties would say this is an equal relationship and it doesn't -- I mean I'm totally . . . none of this is in news that has come out. But if someone's like "Oh, it doesn't matter that this person's my boss. I'm choosing to be here in this relationship." At the end of the day that power dynamic will always show itself. And you're on the record as being like office relationships are also very difficult for people who work around them.
Aminatou: They're bad.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: When I'm king office romance is dead. [Laughter] Because part of why . . . I think whenever people think about sexual harassment they always think of it as this two-way street that only involves the people that are in the relationship but actually it affects everyone at work because if you are in a relationship with your boss for example why would your coworkers not feel some type of way about now the working relationship that they have with you because you have more proximity to power with them. That's something that I think is worth talking about.
And I know a lot of workplaces are like this, like you don't have to be the person in the relationship to actually allege sexual harassment and I really agree with that because it affects everyone. And so if you meet your spouse at work I guess good for you. Can't relate. [Laughter] But also you are making other people uncomfortable. And like sure your love is great and it's pure and it's good for you but we live in a complicated kind of society and I think that part of having a good sexual ethic is also thinking about how it affects everyone else around you. And so, you know, again when I'm king no more office romance. [Laughter]
(21:50)
Ann: Right. And then when we all play by that rule then a lot of the excuse making that happens around maybe more overt forms of harassment goes away too. You know, like how many stories did we hear where a person accused of harassment was like "Oh, but it was totally consensual?" And it's like okay, the more and more that becomes not the norm the less of a ready excuse that is for people who are faced with their own alleged bad behavior.
Aminatou: Right. It's like a lot of people are just like me too, it worked out for me. And I'm like hmm, you are -- it really discounts what it's actually . . . like how it erodes other workplace relationships. And I also think the other thing that is at play here is, you know, I obviously made the crack about her being a millennial but I do think there's a lot of bisexual panic here also at play where people are just -- it's a little more titillating to them. It's easier to shame her and to do all these things. And I'm like that's something I can't abide by. But you see it. Even so many of the headlines focus on thrupple, that's the thrust of the story.
Gina: Yeah.
Aminatou: This is a very boring kind of sex scandal if you think about it. 2019, it's a pretty boring . . . like there's nothing remarkable about the kind of sexual relationships that the people in those relationships are having. But again for me the key is about who has power, how is your power deployed, and Katie Hill is both someone who has a lot of power because of the job that she has but is also someone who doesn't have a lot of power because of the person that she is in society.
I'm just really tired of a generation of politicians who claim a very particular kind of family value. There's like one way that you get to run for office. It's like good, you didn't have any Facebook studios of you doing a keg stand? Good for you, motherfucker. Nobody cares. And so my hope with seeing younger people get into politics is that a lot of this hypocrisy is something that we can actually push back against.
(23:50)
Gina: I want to talk a little about the biphobia in this story too because it so readily plays into this idea that bisexual people are by virtue of being gender-omnivorous are just rampant sexual creatures who can't control their desires. I'm like that is not true for everyone, just like everyone has different sorts of sexual appetites. And so it's sort of a complicated like not wanting to shame her about these identities and at the same time as you said just because she's a woman, just because she's a queer person, those are two areas where you can feel marginalized but you still do hold power over people and there are consequences for having an affair with someone in your office. And then this alleged second affair, that he's one of four of her congressional staffers that got a bonus. So even if that was completely legitimate again you undermine both perhaps his real contribution to the office and all these other people around who are seeking to do the best work they can.
Aminatou: Office romance, don't do it.
Gina: [Laughs] Bisexuality, do it consensually and not at work.
Ann: [Laughs] Thank you Gina.
[Applause]
[Ads]
(28:00)
Ann: Okay, wait, I'm about to make you more relaxed because we're going to talk about Drake's birthday. [Laughter]
Aminatou: Excuse me while I put my drink down and scream my -- okay, I'm ready to talk about this.
Ann: Oh, the saddest Instagram caption. All the feelings.
Aminatou: [Sighs] This man.
Ann: Wait, can I read the Instagram caption first?
Aminatou: Please read the caption because I thought I had dreamt it. I was like this has to be a fever dream.
Ann: There are like ten photos in this set and the caption reads "I've spent many nights over the last four or five years feeling like people did not like me or resented me for things beyond my control. I would sometimes settle into this mindset for months at a time. Today I woke up and looked at my phone and realized how much positive energy and how many unbreakable bonds I have in my life from incredible people. All the messages and posts just reminded me that I'm covered in a blanket of love and support." I know! "And I should never second-guess that. Thank you for a truly uplifting day. Love you all forever."
Aminatou: And then he did the thing that drives me nuts where he -- every single person that he follows that posted an Instagram birthday of him in stories, he'd re-share the story. I'm like you're Drake. I know. I know.
Ann: I thought you were feeling good now. It's okay. [Laughs]
Aminatou: I know, I know. And, you know, there were some -- the regular crew was there. Everyone on like Team OVO, the trainer, the everyone. And then there were also special guests, like special to us, like Adele was there. Look at how good Adele looks. Don't you . . . [Cheering] Freshly divorced, her Lemonade is dropping in December. It's going to be so good.
Ann: Yeah, the other other side. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Yes, it's going to be so good. But you know also celebrities, you're always like how do these two know -- they could've literally met that money or they text or they're legit friends. It's like who knows? But Drake was very excited that Adele was there. He posted her in his feed. She only posted a photo of herself in her feed. [Laughs]
(30:08)
Ann: Which is how you've got to do it right? I mean . . .
Aminatou: I think so. I'm like my carousel is for myself. The friends go in the stories. I support this. The thing about the sentiment that makes me -- obviously it made me feel very tender because, you know, mental health struggles are real and who does not suffer a little bit of bad self-esteem and you have to hype yourself up? But at the same time . . .
Ann: Also who doesn't love a flood of birthday messages? Who doesn't love a blanket of love and support?
Aminatou: Right. I mean -- you know me, I always run away from my birthday so this is the other thing that's happening here.
Ann: Right. I'm the person smothering you with the blanket of love and support, like chasing you down on your birthday.
Aminatou: Oh my god. If Ann Friedman is your friend and you have to turn your phone off and go in a bunker and she will find you.
Ann: Too bad.
Aminatou: But, you know, at the same time you are a best-selling rapper. Relax. [Laughter] And Drake is still the master of corny. He's always dressed like it's 1942 and he's about to eat pasta in an Italian restaurant. Half of his captions are about spaghetti. I'm not making that up. So . . .
Ann: Baked ziti. Also that's like this weird rap pack fascination too. It's like maybe there's a Vegas vacation at some point. Who are these people?
Aminatou: Definitely there's a Vegas vacation involved here.
Ann: Yeah.
Aminatou: So it's like on one hand you're like aww, I'm really happy that you're loved. And on the other hand you remember, you're like oh my god, you're the corniest person that is writing raps. So it's can we hold two ideas at the same time? Absolutely we can.
Ann: [Laughs]
Aminatou: This is also a very good transition because we have been thinking a lot about corniness. When we were on tour in Canada it was at the same time was blackface gate hit them over there and Justin Trudeau got reelected with the help of Barack Obama if you haven't heard. But this is a man who couldn't remember how many times he had worn blackface and everyone was really disappointed or whatever. But we had an amazing guest there, Sarah Hagi, who is a writer and an amazing cultural commentator who was very much like -- she's like "Well, you know, you guys in America think he looks like a Disney prince. Over here we know he's just a corny guy from Quebec." [Laughter] And that hit me really hard because . . .
(32:30)
Ann: We had to just pause actually. We were like you are really reformulating our perspective.
Aminatou: You're right. You're right. Maybe he's handsome for a politician but my man is like corny. Like real. You know, and it really just excavated the real truth that people who run for president are all corny. Like wanting to be president is the corniest shit you can do with your life. [Laughter]
Ann: Well trying to like really earn the blanket of love and support from millions of people is like you . . .
Aminatou: Humiliating. [Laughs]
Ann: Yes, there's no way you can do it without being trite or banal or like sentimental. And so we did a little diving for some of the greatest corny hits of people who are currently running for the Democratic nomination.
Aminatou: And this is in what order?
Ann: Ascending order of corniness. So we're going to start not at zero because you don't get into this game without having some kind of corny behavior but yeah, going up to some extremely high levels of corniness.
Aminatou: Okay.
Ann: All right, so our first corny candidate.
Aminatou: Brother Bernie. That man is so angry all the time about everything. [Laughter] Who is going to make him wear a hat or do a fun thing? Like never. He's always -- he's like "I'm not wearing this hat. I want Medicare for all. I am not petting this child. I want . . ." Have you seen Bernie Sanders hold a baby? Never. And so I really appreciate that aspect of his personality because it means he will have low levels of humiliation because he's the one that's doing all of the yelling.
(34:05)
Ann: This is our relationships, right? It's like . . .
Aminatou: Yeah. It's like be the alpha definitely.
Ann: Right. And it's also worth saying that we're not really placing a value, like a positive or negative value on corniness, so much as noting where it appears more often. So okay, our pal Elizabeth Warren.
Aminatou: Our pal Elizabeth Warren. Also low on the corny but definitely, you know, there are things you have to do when you're running for office and so . . .
Ann: Oh my god, when this ad popped up.
Aminatou: Yeah, this whole grab a beer or whatever with Elizabeth Warren. I'm like you are too smart for this. You are too -- please consumer protect us. Why are you doing this? [Laughter] And so, you know, but I get it. I get it. You've got to meet people. You've got to meet people.
Ann: I also just want to know -- I think I really want to know what she wants to be drinking, right? Like this ad, I'm like just tell me what you like. Just tell me what you're ordering. I can order for myself. It's fine. We don't have to both order the same thing. I don't know.
Aminatou: But also the ad has to appeal to everyone. They're like a beer, but if you don't drink beer a coffee or like an aperol. They're just -- I'm like there's not enough space for this. Why isn't the thing just come meet the candidate? Who the fuck cares about the beer?
Ann: Get a drink with. Drink is a really good word you could've used here. [Laughter]
Aminatou: I know.
Ann: Yeah. Grab a beverage.
Aminatou: Listen, they don't let us write the copy.
Ann: I know. Okay, corny. It's a corny-ass ad.
Aminatou: Call us. Call us. Call us.
Ann: Okay.
Aminatou: I mean . . . [Laughs]
Ann: This is one of our more controversial ones. We were discussing this at length and we decided that the corniest thing about Julian Castro is that he has a twin.
Aminatou: He has a twin. [Laughter] He has a twin. Having a twin is mad corny. It's literally two of you. Okay, Kamala Harris, I would say also in the Bernie category of someone who is generally serious so it is tough to -- you know, it's like are you going to be the staffer that goes up to her and is like "Here's a corndog?" You'll probably die.
(36:05)
Ann: No, she's like I already did my research and I'm making porkchops.
Aminatou: Right. She's like "I made a porkchop because I'm not a fool." But, you know, sometimes things happen in the office and so here she is. Do we have sound for this?
Ann: Yep, I'm going to play it.
[Clip - Music and laughter]
Aminatou: You know, dancing to Cardi like a -- you know, the whole thing. I'm like points for Cardi. Chair dance, hmm, I don't know about that. But you know generally I'm super into it because her sneaker game is strong. Just, you know, it's hard. It's hard to catch her in a corny vibe but it's there. It's there. Let's turn the heat up. Nickname -- the nickname Uncle Joe, corny. Then there are the sunglasses, like this thing, which Ann you pointed out something that I'm still thinking about because I always . . . the thing with the Ray-Bans or whatever he's doing, the Heritage sunglasses, it's like okay, you're an older person who . . . this is your denim jacket. This is how you are -- I don't know. I just feel he's usually decently dressed then the glasses pull the whole outfit together. But then you kind of blew my mind this afternoon.
Ann: Well my counterpoint was sort of one generation's amazing look is every other generation's corny, sad, like maybe you should've retired it a while ago. Like fully we will be wearing our denim jackets when kids are like "Oh my god, it's kind of cute she has a signature."
Aminatou: I know. I know.
Ann: So yeah, so I think deeply corny but gets a pass because he's old.
Aminatou: I know. Also always reminding someone that you have a black friend, very corny. [Laughter]
Ann: In bracelet form? Like . . .
Aminatou: You know, it's like sorry to this man. [Laughter] Okay, turn the heat up.
Ann: Okay.
Aminatou: I know, can you believe there's more people after this? Because this is a lot.
Ann: We're still in the middle ground, okay? [Laughs]
(38:10)
Aminatou: So today something remarkable happened. I actually did a deep dive on who Andrew Yang is because people keep saying . . .
Ann: We read his Wikipedia page.
Aminatou: We read his Wikipedia which is very informative. But people keep saying he was a tech exec and I'm like you know what, what company? The Andrew Yang resume is so thin. [Laughter] He literally maybe ran like a G Map prep firm. [Laughter] But I'm just like does anybody know who this -- does he go here? I have so many questions. But, you know, then there's other stuff. There's a lot of tech bro stuff that really drives me nuts so he's always shilling for the bird scooters. I'm like is this spon-con or are you . . .
Ann: It is not hashtagged.
Aminatou: It's never, but I'm just like are you -- you unironically like bird scooters? Okay, very tech bro again.
Ann: Very corny.
Aminatou: Ugh, very corny. Okay. Okay, turn the heat up. Who else? This photo is a photo that I think about all the time because when Beto O'Rourke was in Congress, which I'm like nobody remembers that you were in Congress at all . . . [Laughs]
Ann: Like he did go here once, you know?
Aminatou: He was part of the new class of like it was him, it was Tulsi, it was Aaron Schock, the criminal Aaron Schock. And they were part of this sweating caucus where they would always work out. They were doing like high-intensity interval shit and hiking all the time. And they were very much like -- oh, and Paul Ryan was like the fourth that rounded out that group. But they were always like "We are so evolved. We're all hanging out. You guys are the ones doing civility politics or whatever." And so I think about this photo all the time because everyone in this photo is in deep turmoil. [Laughter] So just like thank you Instagram for the memories. I'm so happy we were able to find that.
(40:02)
Ann: Technically Aaron Schock's Facebook page is where this came from. [Laughs] Yeah.
Aminatou: Aaron Schock back on the town, hmm. Love to see it. Okay. And now the like biggest corndog monster of this entire slideshow.
Ann: The pinnacle.
Aminatou: The pinnacle. Um . . . [Laughter] y'all, where do you even start with a problem like Cory Booker? Okay. Let's start with the fashion moments. [Laughter] Do you want a man in bootcut jeans and Toms and no socks as your president? Because I cannot go there. Then there's your favorite.
Ann: It is the same coffee tweet approximately 45 times. After he was mocked for recycling this one bad corny joke over and over he then upped the corny ante and is now selling it on a mug. [Laughter]
Aminatou: I can't believe someone bought this then had to report it to the FEC. This is wild. Like this is why you have my information, I bought this corny mug. Please look into it. The other thing with him is this like -- these acronyms that he loves. So he is suggesting that he wants to create an alias, BBB, big, bald, and bold.
Ann: This is because he so loves Mitt Romney's Pierre Delecto that he wants to be BBB?
Aminatou: I have to say I admire Pierre Delecto a little bit.
Ann: Oh.
Aminatou: Because the name is legendary but also having no shame about just tweeting about yourself on an anonymous account is such an NBA player move. I was like touché.
Ann: [Laughs]
(41:48)
Aminatou: But yeah, you know, BBB. I'm like Cory Booker, that's big baller brand. I can't go there with you. [Laughter] So obviously we joke about all of this and one of these people I hope will be president. [Laughs] So that's how -- I always have to remind myself of them. I'm like ugh, I'm so tired of these people but my god save us. Which one of them? Who will win? There's so many more people running for president. There's all the ones that look like basketball coaches, like the tall white guys. I never know who they are. There's the crystal lady. There's so many people so . . .
Ann: Yeah, we made some strategic choices about who to really throw to the winds corniness-wise.
Aminatou: You made a choice. I fully don't know those people. Every time I watch a debate I'm like who is this person? [Jingle] My favorite political story of the week actually is the Sunday Riley Review controversy. You guys, a lot has happened in this presidency but nothing has shaken me more than this.
Ann: Wait, for people who are not fans of these products . . .
Aminatou: So Sunday Riley is a real person who like . . .
Ann: Wait what?
Aminatou: Yes, her name is Sunday Riley.
Ann: Sunday Riley is a person? It definitely sounds like when you take two names that sound like last names and make a hipster grocery store. That's what it sounds like.
Aminatou: No, no. This is why this is core-shaking.
Ann: Okay.
Aminatou: Sunday Riley, real human being. Has always said she was maybe a chemist and very much all of the product line is based on science. Was accused -- rightfully -- by the FTC this week of faking product reviews on beauty platforms such as Sephora. Here's the reason this story is wild. Sunday Riley makes like three colt products: a Vitamin C serum, a night face oil, and this like lactic acid called Good Genes.
Ann: Which I purchased at your urging.
Aminatou: Tell me how it worked for you.
Ann: I love it.
Aminatou: Thank you.
Ann: I know, it sounds like we're endorsing products but really it is so expensive and I can't decide if I love it because I spent so much money on it and it feels like . . .
Aminatou: We're going to get into that.
Ann: Okay.
(43:58)
Aminatou: But here's the thing. Y'all, the shit works. Why does a product that works need to make fake reviews? That is going to fuck with me for the rest of time. But the way that I know about this is actually not from this New York Times article. Some of us get the FTC press releases [Laughter] because consumer protection is very important. And obviously most of the time I'm like delete, I don't know this company name. I saw Sunday Riley and I'm like excuse me I am -- sleeves up.
Ann: You sat up in bed. [Laughs]
Aminatou: What? They're coming for my products? Sometimes it's personal. And the press release was like literally watching . . . it was like an SVU episode. It was so riveting. It's like here's the evidence. Here is the entire crime, we're going to lay it out for you. Here's the proof. The case was bulletproof. And then you keep reading the thing and you're like okay, Sunday Riley is clearly a liar, maybe not a chemist -- definitely not a chemist -- and then also posting these fake reviews is a thing they got caught doing dead to rights. And you keep reading the FTC press release and nowhere in the press release is it like okay, Amina, you're about to get Good Genes for free. We're about to find these motherfuckers.
Ann: No settlement? There's no settlement?
Aminatou: Because the whole time I was reading I was like oh, the price is about to go down. [Laughter] This is crazy. This is so crazy. And you get to the end of the press release and they're just like -- they're like "Okay, this is what happened." And you're like where is the fine? Is Sunday Riley going to apologize to me? What is Sephora doing? And on its face this is -- it sounds very funny but really the reason that I'm really upset about it is a lot of use product reviews online for things that are really important. For everything from things that you put on your body to choosing your doctor to things that you buy for your children, like who you're going to get to sell you a home. I know that public trust is not real in this town anymore but I thought that in the skincare realm at least . . . [Laughs]
(46:12)
Ann: Blanket of love and support? [Laughs]
Aminatou: We could still trust each other. And it turns out that that's not true. And watching people who make these regulations not make a bigger deal of it was something that really pissed me off because I was like well, you know, it's skincare so everybody's laughing. It's like a thing they think only women care about. It's not a big deal. It's actually this is a huge deal. Now all I'm -- all this is making me think is that every single product review on Sephora is actually garbage and that's definitely true on Amazon. I'm the queen of knowing if an Amazon review is a Chinese robot because they almost all are and the way that I always look into -- I only read the bad reviews. I'm like what are the people who hate this thing? What are they saying about it? But now it's like the reviews are buried, you can't trust anyone. And when you see a company like this that actually doesn't need to write false reviews do it all it does is erode public trust for everything else.
And when the agency that is supposed to be doing something about holding them accountable is not doing -- it's like does the FTC have a lot of power? Absolutely. There are things they can do and there are things they can signal. And watching them really leave consumers hanging is something also that's terrifying to me. I'm like this is about lactic acid. What happens when it's a thing that's even more important than that? And, you know, but I'm just like I'm still very shook about it. But everybody should use lactic acid on their face. It's good for you.
Ann: My dermatologist Aminatou Sow everybody. [Laughs]
Aminatou: Listen, I went to Grey's Anatomy school. They teach you all this stuff.
Ann: Ugh.
(47:50)
Aminatou: You should follow the FTC on Twitter. You should get the press releases. When you're mad about how some of these cases happen you should send them a friendly email. The people respond and the people who work there are actually delightful. It's not their fault the world is how it is. I'm just saying.
Ann: Thank you.
Aminatou: Thank you. Consumer protection moment.
Ann: And also we are totally out of time for the show.
Aminatou: We've got to go. We want to say thank you to the staff at the Lincoln Theatre, the Benson Ball for inviting us, and the team at Brightest Young Things and to all of you for being here. We'll see you on the Internet.
Ann: See you on the Internet.
Aminatou: Bye.
Ann: Thank you.
[Cheering]
Aminatou: Bye. You can find us many places on the Internet: callyourgirlfriend.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, we're on all your favorite platforms. Subscribe, rate, review, you know the drill. You can call us back. You can leave a voicemail at 714-681-2943. That's 714-681-CYGF. You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com. Our theme song is by Robyn, original music composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. Our logos are by Kenesha Sneed. We're on Instagram and Twitter at @callyrgf where Sophie Carter-Kahn does all of our social. Our associate producer is Jordan Baley and this podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.